Author: cosimo

By Zoë Goetzmann

Interview with Fiona G Roberts – Inspiring Art Journey

 

This week on Cosimo Studio Tours, we visit artist Fiona G Roberts’ studio located in Bank at The Koppel Project in London.

In this interview (which you can listen to in full here) we delve into a variety of topics ranging from her latest body of work, women artists, as well as gender inequality in the art world (running through the statistics as well as the stagnant two percent of top-tier female artists who sell at art auction).

Fiona G. Roberts holds an MA in Painting from Wimbledon College of Arts – University of the Arts London where she received the Vice Chancellor’s Scholarship.

She completed two years at the Turps Banana Painting School (2019-2021). She has participated in multiple group shows in London and in the U.K., including Dentons Art Prize Exhibition, 2018, Trinity Buoy Wharf Drawing Prize Exhibition, 2018-2019 (Runner-up and Winner of Staff Prize), ING Discerning Eye, 2020, Royal Academy Summer Exhibition, 2021, ‘We Are Such Stuff As Dreams Are Made On’ at Aleph Contemporary, London, 2021, ‘Two Doors’ at Tart Gallery, Winners: Award Winning Artists, Mall Galleries, London, 2022.

She was also shortlisted for the Ruth Borchard Self Portrait Prize 2021 and the 2021 Figurative Art Now Exhibition where she was awarded a Mentorship Prize.

Zoë: Thank you so much for being here, Fiona. I was excited to delve into your work. I love sitting in the studios and looking at everyone’s paintings.

To kick things off, can you tell me about your artist story? Essentially, what was the journey that led you to becoming an artist?

Fiona: I think the honest answer is, I’ve probably always been an artist. I think if you’re an artist, you’re just compelled to make things and to do things and to make art.

And so I’ve always done that, really. And it was the thing that made me happiest as a kid or even throughout my whole life, really.

But my parents thought that going to art school wasn’t a great idea. So I did other things first.

My first degree was from the London School of Economics, and I did another degree after that.

From there, I went to Goldsmiths, actually. And then I was a research fellow and academic research fellow and a teacher. So I’ve done lots of things.

But all the time, I was building up my art practice. I never stopped doing art. I was always making art. And eventually, I did my MA in painting at Wimbledon, University of the Arts, London.

That was in 2016. I got a scholarship to do that, which was really brilliant. And I graduated in 2016. Then I launched myself as an artist after that.

Zoë: Can you tell me a little bit about your paintings and your practice?

Fiona: Sure. So, I’ll tell you about the practical aspects first. I work in quite a broad variety of mediums, mainly oils on board or canvas, sometimes on perspex.

I also use acrylics sometimes. And I also use inks quite a bit. And whatever I’m doing, whether it’s with across all those mediums, I’m doing the similar thing, really, which is sanding down the medium and using lots of layers.

So I’m building up layers, and yeah, lots of watery layers. Although the medium is quite different, I’m doing the same thing.

Zoë: Where did that thinking and process go from that this intention to do that sort of technique?

Fiona: I think it’s just something, if I’m honest, that has developed over the years. You know, a lot of art is about trial and error. In fact, so much of it is trial and error.

And actually, a lot of the breakthroughs that I’ve had in my art practice have come through errors. What you might see as errors, but they’ve actually been something that I want to keep because I think, “Oh, actually, that’s a breakthrough. It’s really worked.

It’s really good, but it was unintentional.” So I think it came from just years of doing things, and I realized that’s what I liked the best. So from that really.

Zoë: Can you tell us a bit about your artistic journey? Were you always interested in painting and were there any particular styles or mediums that you experimented with?

Fiona: Yes, I’ve been interested in drawings and paintings my whole life. I experimented with different styles and mediums, but a lot of it depended on practicalities.

For example, when I became a mom, I couldn’t use oil paints anymore because of the toxicity of the thinners and other chemicals. So, I switched to acrylics, which are much less toxic.

And when I didn’t have a studio, I went back to my drawings or worked on smaller pieces. As a woman artist, you have to be flexible and adapt to your circumstances.

Zoë: Speaking of women, can you talk about the subject matter of your work? I’m looking at the piece behind me, which reminds me of the title “Start Here”. Can you describe any of your works and the themes behind them?

Fiona: Well, as you can see, some of them aren’t gender-specific. That’s true, but a lot of them are women. And I’m fascinated by the human condition, by how the world is navigated and negotiated through emotions, and by what it’s like to be a woman in the world.

I often work in series, and in this latest one, most of the subjects have red hair. This is because my mother and brother-in-law both died recently, and they both had red hair.

Since their deaths, I’ve been compulsively making paintings of people with red hair, without even realizing it until my husband pointed it out to me. I think a lot of artists work subconsciously like that, with a compulsion to create.

It’s only afterward that you realize what you were doing. I think sometimes I’m conveying emotions or working through them, sharing them.

The latest series is about that, but they’re not specific portraits of my mother or brother-in-law. They could be seen as portraits of emotions or, as the arts writer Paul Carey-Kent wrote about my recent show, “non-portraits of real people.”

They’re about loss, grief, remembering, and emotions. Does that make sense?

Zoë: When you look at figurative painting, it’s not so much a trend, but it’s what I’ve found with artists. They really understand that it’s an extension of the self.

It’s a perfect expression, drawing somebody else, but even if you’re drawing someone else, it has your own sense of identity because it’s your interpretation of that person.

But it’s also in your memory, so it does make sense. It’s not coined your own phrase, but it’s an observation of humanity.

Fiona: That’s right. And the other thing is, well, that’s just made me think about Oscar Wilde, who said that every portrait painted with feeling is really a portrait of the artist.

And also, although they’re about individual feelings and emotions, because those emotions are universal, we all go through them, like grief.

So there’s a kind of universality to it that I hope people will recognize and relate to. It’s not just about me and from me, but it’s something that’s universal that others can relate to as well.

Zoë: For the bonus questions that we do for Cosimo, it’s all about making art accessible, reaching out to emerging artists, and we like to have artists’ insights for any artists listening, or for patrons or collectors as well.

What do you love most about being an artist? If you can pick one, it can be several, but if you can pick one.

Fiona: Just making the art, just making the work. I love it. I’m compelled to do it. And when it goes well, it’s the best feeling in the world.

But when it goes badly, which happens a lot, it’s the opposite. So just making the work, solving those problems and seeing what emerges on the canvas.

Zoë: Has art always been a form of therapy for you, or is it just more recent with this recent work?

We’ve done a lot of things about memory and nostalgia, and it’s interesting. It really is like this sense of a symbiotic relationship that one artist wants to impart between artist and viewer, that they have their own subjective ideas about what the story of the painting is and what trauma or nostalgia it invokes.

Fiona: As an artist, I don’t think I ever for a minute thought of it like that. It was just something I liked doing. There’s something so meditative about it, and it takes you into a different space of thinking.

And when you’re making the work, you can’t think of all those other things. So, in a way, there’s something a bit Zen, a bit meditative about it.

But I never thought, “This is therapy.” I just feel compelled to make it. If there’s some sort of therapy there, then that’s great, but it was never my intention.

However, we know that art therapy exists for a reason, so maybe it comes together somehow.

Zoë: Yeah. And with artistic influences. This goes back to still art making, or we can go with what you love about them.

Do you draw from any? It’s okay, don’t worry about it. Yeah. I’m trying to draw from any artistic influences, or do you have any? Did you have any inspiration?

Fiona: Yeah, I mean, obviously, as an artist, I’m fascinated by our history. I mean, my daughter when she was little, she said, ‘Please, mommy, no more art galleries.’

We were constantly looking at art. I suppose, off the top of my head, Marlene Dumas. Love her work, especially her inks, but also her oils as well. I mean, she’s an amazing female artist.

Alice Neel. Fantastic. I mean, just beautiful. And again, a female artists – both doing similar subjects to me… Chantal Joffe, I mean, I adore her work. She’s just amazing.

Zoë: Why did you focus on women as subjects, or do you have any other things that really make you compelled to be, and not just because you’re a woman?

Fiona: Again, it’s because it’s so instinctive, it’s really difficult to answer that. But I think that’s a good thing. We maybe already answered it in that I just feel compelled to do that as what I want to do.

I don’t really, you know, to keep kind of in touch with like to be authentic, I almost don’t want to analyze it too much. I just want to do it. You’ve got to kind of be in touch with yourself and just do what you want to. I found a book that I made when I was 12, and it was kind of similar things.

I was doing it then. I mean, I have done other, I’ve done landscapes, and I’ve done, you know, I’ve done all sorts of things over the years. But I come back to this. It’s just, it’s what I want to do mostly. And that’s it. It’s sort of as simple as that, I think.

I really believe that. You’ve got to be authentic. The best art, I think, is the most relatable art when you are authentic and you’re just in touch with what you want to do, and you’re doing it because you want to do it.

Yeah. And that’s it. You shut everything else out because nothing else matters. So this is where I want to be doing this if I was with a gallery or not with a gallery, if I was paid or not paid.

I would be doing this.” I honestly think it’s pointless unless you’re going to be authentic. That’s what I feel, that’s true. It’s taken me a while to acknowledge that and realize that, but I think it’s absolutely vital.

Zoë: Did you find, as you’ve gone through your career as an artist, that the best thing to do is to make work that you love?

Did you ever fall into trends that you said, “I have to sell?” Or do I have to be pressured by people to do that? Certainly, that’s part of the journey.

Fiona: It’s very easy to say, but it’s not always easy to stay authentic. Yeah, it’s all part of the journey, and at various times, you have to be flexible and do things that maybe you wouldn’t want to do, really, but you might be part of a course you’re doing, might be part of what a gallery wants you to do, or you might be influenced by what other people are doing.

And all those things are fairly valid parts of your artistic journey. You have to do them sometimes. But at the end of the day, the best work comes when it’s just from the heart.

Zoë: And so however you would like, what would maybe be your least favorite thing about, let’s say, the art world? If you can, you can take care of a few.

Fiona: I think we touched on it already. And I think it’s the sexism, you know, the inequality. When I was doing my Masters, part of that was to do a project and give a presentation about sexism in the art world.

As someone who is quite switched on about things like that, because I went to LSE and I’ve done research, I was even shocked at how bad it is. You know, there have been some inroads, but there are some terrible statistics about how bad it is in the art world.

Even now, I’m not talking about 50 years ago. In art schools, women make up 60 or 70% of art students, way outnumbering men. So they’re quite happy to take our money for that. But when we’re out in the world, our participation is hugely reduced.

We’re only in far fewer shows and have far less representation in galleries. I was looking at some figures the other day. The National Gallery, which has 2,000 works, has only 21 by women.

Yeah. In all the top galleries, those with the big owners, we make up only 7% of art in top galleries. And there are just some horrific figures, really.

For example, when we have artists represented by commercial galleries, in Europe and North America, only 13.7% of living artists are women. This isn’t the past; this was from last year.

Zoë: I think it’s still 2% that make up the top tier art market. Yeah, I don’t think that statistic…

Fiona: Yes, 2%… We know sexism is everywhere but I would honestly say it’s worse in the arts than in all the other things that I’ve done.

And I tried to work that out. I tried to kind of think, why would that be? And I think it’s because in the arts, we’re not used to quantifying things and counting things.

Yeah, if you worked in a bank, you could say, there are X number of women in this bank and X number on the board, and we need to change that. It’s not fair. You can count them. It’s very specific. It’s very easy to do. And in fact, it’s done in the banking world.

They probably haven’t achieved parity, but they try to. In the arts, they can get away with saying, “Well, it’s a meritocracy. It’s, you know, they’re just not good enough. It’s all subjective.” It’s like, “I don’t like their work”. There’s no objective measure.

And that system is open to abuse. And indeed, it is abused. Otherwise, why are we making up 60 or 70% of the art schools and then getting just crumbs when we come out?

The system is very difficult to police because it’s so open. Of course, you can argue that it needs to be open; it’s about creativity.

Yes, of course, we need to be open, but I think we could take it seriously. We could put measures in place to make it better for women.

It’s not just about sexism, but there’s racism, and we should be trying to achieve parity, thinking about it and working towards it. I’m not saying it’s easy, and I’m not saying we’re going to do it overnight.

Zoë: Is there any advice that you can impart on any aspiring or emerging artists who are making this decision to choose this career path?

Fiona: On a practical level, I’d probably say you’re probably going to need a day job unless you have family money. Seriously, you need to have a roof over your head and food to eat.

So, having a day job is a good idea. Then the advice I think, be true to yourself. It takes time. You’re in it for the long haul. It’s not a sprint. It’s a marathon, and you’re going to change along the way.

Try to be true to yourself. Don’t be too hard on yourself, try to have self-confidence in your work, at least, if nothing else, just believe in your work.

It’s your work, it’s come from your heart. So, have confidence in what you’re making. Don’t think too much about whether your work will get into a particular gallery or show.

If you do that, you’ll lose your authenticity, and that’s really important to make meaningful work for yourself and others. Just believe in yourself and don’t give up.

Zoë: Okay, great. That’s encouraging to know. Is that all for this project?

Fiona: Yes, just for the next few months. More to come. Thank you so much, Zoë, for having this discussion. It’s been great.

Zoë: Super, thank you so much. I really enjoyed it.

By Zoë Goetzmann

Interview with Caitlin Flood Molyneux – Pop Art

 

This week on Cosimo Studio Tours, we are incredibly excited to present a special podcast episode and interview with artist Caitlin Flood-Molyneux (@floodmolyneuxart) which we recorded after the artist’s first solo show in London, Suspended in Time (April 3 – April 9) at Fitzrovia Gallery. 

In this interview, we speak about Caitlin’s ‘Artist Story,’ the artist’s process, the curation of the show, Pop Art and DADA inspirations as well as the healing power of art. 

Caitlin was included in our list of “Highly Commended Artists” for the Cosimo Art Competition in 2022. The artist is a contemporary Welsh Artist residing in South Wales. Their practice delves into the relationship between pop culture imagery, memory, and nostalgia. Through Caitlin’s work, it is important to the artist that audiences develop their own subjective opinions: forming their own symbiotic relationships with the artwork. In this way, audiences establish a sense of personal self-reflection: reconciling with past trauma and hardships.

Caitlin Flood-Molyneux holds a Bachelor’s of Fine Arts Degree from Cardiff Metropolitan University (also Bergen Academy of Art and Design). The artist also holds a Master’s Degree in Fine Art from Cardiff Metropolitan University. Flood-Molyneux has exhibited in group exhibitions in the United Kingdom, the United States, Hong Kong, and Japan. 

Zoe: So, we’re sitting in Fitzrovia Gallery after the launch of your first solo show in London. Congratulations! It’s such a lovely show, and we’re sitting with all your works as well. Thank you so much for taking the time to speak with me.

Caitlin: Thank you for inviting me!

Zoe: You’ve been a great support with Cosimo – we’ve loved showing your work and everything. And we had your work also in the highly commended list of artists for our competition last year.

Caitlin: Which was fantastic, and I was really honored to be featured on that. So thank you as well!

Zoe: So, there are going to be some questions about the show from last night… but we’re interested also in your artist’s story. So can you kind of delve into what your artist’s story is? Tell me about that journey.

Caitlin: So my story is, when I was younger, I always painted. My mum was always encouraging me to paint as a young child, and I hated school. It was really hard for me to even be in school; I just hated it. And she saw something in me and she loved art herself.

And she said, “You know, go to art college.” She pushed me; she was like, “Go to college.” And that’s where things really kicked off. I started to delve deep into graphic design and then exploring printmaking and screen printing.

I carried on to do a foundation degree in art and design, which I really enjoyed. And I then went on to do an artist designed to make a course. But it was so, it was more products and making tables, stuff like that, and ceramics.

And at the time, I thought maybe it would be more of a job opportunity-wise; it would be a better course. But then in my second year, I figured out that, no, I want to be a fine artist.

I was very ambitious when I was in my foundation degree, making these really large, abstract pieces. And then I went into my second year and went to Norway for Erasmus.

And I did my second year out in Norway, where I then expressed myself through more collage-based work. I met artist Dexter Dalwood, who was just really inspiring.

And he gave me the confidence then to say, “No, just do what you want to do, paint what you want to paint.” And then I went back into my third year, then did my masters, and yeah, here I am!

Zoe: Yeah, there’s so much travel as well, but always the best and always good influences. That makes sense. What kind of work did your mum do when she was doing art?

Caitlin: Very bright, abstract work, very landscape-based. So, I was very landscape-based when I first started painting. And she used a lot of textiles in her work and collage.

So I think that’s where that influence came from. And that’s where I learned how to use all the different materials. She was actually a staff nurse.

She didn’t carry on doing a fine art degree, and she went back to it years later but then had to stop again. But she was always a nurse. So it was nice then because she was teaching me all these techniques.

That’s where I really learned how to paint, especially use oil paints.

She taught me how to do that. And I had no clue. So she was teaching me how to mix paints.

And she was like, “Don’t use the whole tube! And, you know, you only need to use a little bit.”

Zoe: So, she was your beginning… The idea of time is especially interesting, particularly in the context of the pandemic. Did the past three or four years have an effect on the title? With everyone talking about the concept of time and identifying this as a topic?

Caitlin: It definitely seeped in. But my stuff was going on before the pandemic. When the pandemic hit, it was more like, “Right, I’m going to make work that I enjoy doing because I’m stuck at home, and I can’t get to the studio.” I lost my studio at the time.

So I was painting in my garden. I was making work then that I wanted to just make, instead of just making work to sell or show. So I definitely think that impacted things because it made me look more into myself and my work.

What do I want to get from painting? Why do I paint? I definitely think maybe that time element was kind of pointing back at me where I was thinking, “Time isn’t what it seems, and what do I want to do with my life? And what do I want to do with my art?”

And I definitely knew I wanted to be an artist, so the pandemic kind of helped me to focus on my work. I wasn’t showing work; everything was online.

So it was based on me having a real kind of talk with myself.

Zoe: That’s great. You mentioned you want to create, which is a very important thing. I fully support artists selling because you need to make money – but you’ve got to identify that passion because that’s why you make art. It comes from this passionate place, you know?

Caitlin: Yeah, definitely. In the pandemic, I actually sold a lot of pieces because I was just exploring making paper works. And I was selling those and people enjoyed it.

And it was refreshing because I didn’t really have the space to paint massively.

Zoe: So, with the show, because we’re studying your work, can you talk to me about the curation and how you put everything together?

Caitlin: So I got a studio in an industrial unit where they’re so supportive, and I kind of turned up to this big storage unit, and I said, “Look, can I paint here?” And they were like, “Yeah, that’s great.” And they let me.

I’ve got this big container where I work in, and they let me take work out. And I have people come to visit, and they let me kind of spread out all over this giant unit. And it’s great. It contrasts well with the work.

So I was kind of spreading things out before where I was thinking, “How do I want the show to look?” And then it was a different ballgame when I got into the show and got into the space.

Yeah, I just kind of set out things first and thought, “Right, I don’t want to overcrowd, but I don’t want things to look too blank.” And obviously, I’ve got a lot of work.

And I wanted to have the frames contrasting with the canvas pieces so that things were kind of contrasting with that.

But yeah, I kind of just looked at colors and what went well, what was contrasting well. I think that’s something I do in my work anyway – I kind of look at contrasts and what kind of goes well or things that blend well.

So it kind of came naturally to me. Putting it all together now, I’ve only ever done a show for small areas, but this was a completely different ballgame.

But it was quite natural how it all came together, which was really nice.

Zoe: And you got it how you wanted it to look, so because it’s your own work that you’re putting together in the show, I’m always curious when you’re working on a piece and you want to exhibit it, does that ever enter your mind? Like, how is this going to look in the gallery space… Do you ever think about it?

Caitlin: Do you know what? It’s weird because I used to think like that, where I’d be thinking, “Right, what’s this going to look like? Is a gallery going to like it?”

And now I just think about the painting. Whenever I’m making work, it’s never planned out. It’s all in the subconscious – things come out. I let things come naturally.

Zoe: Did you have any influences growing up in art school, like artistic influences that you looked towards? I don’t want to compare you to any pop artists or any of the people that are, you know, the movements that were conducted, but did you have any specific ones that you were inspired by?

Caitlin: It’s funny because I wasn’t really into pop art that much. I mean, I liked it, but it wasn’t something I wanted to recreate.

So, it’s quite funny when people say about pop art because people always think of pop art when they think of screen printing and stuff like that.

But for me, when I was growing up, it was sort of Gillian Ayrs, where she’s just a big abstract painter, and she would make these really big works, but more her attitude towards paint in this kind of, “I don’t care, I’m just going to paint what I want to paint.”

And those influences because I still think that abstract presence is there… Peter Lanyon who was, you know, doing aerial views of St. Ives.

But it’s funny because all these influences were just abstract people, okay? But I think it’s one of those things where I was influenced by those people, but I can definitely see sort of presence of that abstract mess in my work.

I mean, if you took away the figures or even just broke down the figures, it would be purely abstract. It’s just recently that I’ve started to play with figures and people, but there are still very big, heavily abstract influences in the work.

Zoe: Yeah, definitely. And what made you gravitate toward the collage aspect of your work?

Caitlin: I always really enjoyed collage when I was a kid. And I was always using the Argos catalogs and making collages and stuff like that.

And I just always really loved it. And it’s something that I would do with my mum. And yeah, I just always did, especially in graphic design, we learned more about collage and the Dada movement, and you know, how people used the color orange to express themselves.

So kind of using all that was something that I was really inspired by. And yeah, I just kind of was like, “right, I’m going to start putting all these things together.”

And what happens when all these different things align and they meet.

So that’s kind of where the work is kind of gone now where the collage is meeting the painting. And what happens if I paint from the collage and all these different elements?

Zoe: What do you love most about being an artist? 

Caitlin: I just love being able to say I’m an artist and to be able to wake up and do what I love and spread that joy to other people.

My work involves doing workshops with communities and in hospitals.

So, to be able to do that and share these skills with people and give them skills that they can use to help themselves is just fantastic. And I’m really grateful every day that I wake up.

I’m grateful that I’m still doing this, and I’m still being an artist because there was a long time ago when I thought maybe I couldn’t make it. For years, I just never thought I would get to a moment where I could actually do art full-time, but now I do, which is amazing.

To hear more about Caitlin’s work, you can listen to the interview in full over on our podcast.

By Zoë Goetzmann (@byzoesera)

Interview with Phillip Reeves – Spotlight on Artistry

 

In this week’s edition of Cosimo Studio Tours, we headed to Bethnal Green to visit artist Phillip Reeves (@phillipreeves_). 

Reeves holds a BA in Fine Art Printmaking and Painting from London Metropolitan University. He also holds an MA in Fine Art from Goldsmiths.

In this interview, we speak in-depth about his ‘Paper Clothes’ series. The series combines the art of clothing with the art of clothing-making. Inspired by the concept of uniforms, Reeves creates ‘paper clothes’ via oil painting and dress-makers’ paper. His works draw on Colour Field Theory and the Colour Field Movement. 

When creating his ‘paper clothes’ designs, Reeves draws inspiration from artists such as Joseph Albers and Agnes Martin for their uses of colour, line, and form. He also shares some amazing, (juicy even) behind-the-scenes anecdotes about the art world, auction houses, and his life as a painter in our podcast interview. 

Reeves has participated in residencies, and solo and group exhibitions in London and New York (he was also an Artist in Residence at the Embassy of Foreign Artists in Geneva). Most recently, he took part in a group residency show at 13 Soho Square for The Earth Vision Charity Exhibition. 

He has been nominated for The Jealous Gallery Art Prize, shortlisted for The Dentons Art Prize in 2017 (Curated by Niamh White), and received the Husk Studio Residency Aware in 2018-2019.

Zoë: Hello everyone. I’m here sitting with artist Phillip Reeves in his studio near Bethnal Green. Thanks so much, Phillip, for being here. 

We’re going to dive into some questions. I like to start out every interview with what I call an “Artist’s Story.” 

Could you tell me a little bit about your artist story and how you became an artist and chose this career path?

Phillip: I guess I realized I had an affinity for art when I was quite young. When we had ‘wet break’ at school, it was raining so we couldn’t go outside and play.

I used to get a queue of other children formed up in front of a desk and I’d make drawings of owls. I enjoyed the attention this created, as none of the children could quite draw an owl as well as me [or as I could draw an owl].

I realized there was some kind of currency in this: it was a bit like showing off, and I quite enjoyed it. So, I guess from age six in wet playtime [is when I discovered my passion for Art and for being an artist].

Zoë: I like [that] very specific artist story because most people say [or answer], “I’ve always creative,” but I like that you had this very specific moment.

Phillip: Yeah, it was a watershed moment for me, being able to show off but not getting into trouble for it.

So, it was something in my head, [that] perhaps, ‘clicked.’ And then I liked that I could, in some ways, please people without getting into trouble – which I think is a fine line – which I think one should dally sometimes.

Zoë: So, your currency was your talent: it [Art and being an artist] became your niche.

Phillip: Exactly! So, drawing birds like kingfishers and owls, making paper airplanes. I was really good at making paper airplanes.

So, these two things I could do very, very well. [But] I guess there wasn’t a career in making paper airplanes.

Zoë: Well, we’ll get to your practice later [when we discuss your ‘Paper Clothes’ series]

Then from six years old, how did the rest of your artistic career continue and transpire after that?

Phillip Reeves: Well going through school, art was the only subject I really kind of tried at or did the homework for. Then when I came to choose [my] A-level subjects – [as] we call them in the UK – I kind of flunked a few, and Art was the only one I aced.

I’ve always believed that people should do what they’re good at, if they can. I think it’s a shame to have a talent and tamp it down.

Also, I’m quite stubborn. So, it was kind of art or nothing after that.

Zoë: Can you say where did you do your training?

Phillip Reeves: I did a year and a half Foundation at Reading College – which was really fun – and then I did three years at London Met doing painting and printmaking.

I left my BA and moved to a squat in East London and Hackney Wick for years. We had a studio program, an art gallery, and a lot of squat parties.

So, this was kind of my lifestyle for three or four years, just squatting and making art and making a mess. [Then] that [period of my life and career] ended and I moved to New York for a while, came back, went to Goldsmith’s – did an MA there.

Then more recently, I did a studio program at Turps in Elephant and Castle run by Marcus Harvey, and I finished that last year. So, I’ve kind of done bits and pieces of education, and here I am today.

Zoë: In your studio! But you’ve had two studios, right? Because you’ve done a couple of other residencies.

Phillip Reeves: That’s right. We met at a show in Soho which I’ve just finished. The show is still on, but the residency programme is finished.

So, that was a really nice building in Soho Square. Quite a fancy place to have a studio, but sadly, that has come to an end. So, I’m back in my freezing cold garret in Bethnal Green.

Zoë: What about art school? You said it was ‘art or nothing’… Was there a reason why you wanted that formal education? 

Phillip Reeves: Yeah, in some ways times have changed, but when I was 18, an affordable way to leave home was to go and study.

The fees weren’t anything like they are today, and there were government loans. It was £3,000 a year at the time, rather than I don’t know what now, but they are at least triple that. I know to do an MA at the Royal College at the moment, it’s £16,000 per year.

In a way, a lot of people in my generation did BA’s, just because it was the thing you did to leave home. You could have a nice time for three years, and the government would kind of pay for you. So, it was in a way, a rite of passage.

I’m not sure if it is so much nowadays. But in terms of the formal training, you speak about, you don’t really get that at art school in the UK. It’s quite critical study-based, theory-based, and conceptual-based.

You’re not going to get a life drawing lesson or a lesson in mixing colors or this kind of formal painting techniques.

So yeah, it was more a means to an end in terms of being able to move away, being able to go to London, which I always wanted to do. So perhaps it was more that than wanting formal art training.

Zoë: So, going into your practice… what do you work on now [or worked on previously]? At art school, what were you most fascinated by? Can you delve into what your current practice looks like today?

Phillip Reeves: I’m gonna say that I can’t remember much [about] my BA… but my MA, I can, thankfully. So, at Goldsmiths, we did an MFA in Fine Art.

We split the year [working] in sculpture, painting, printmaking, photography. So actually going in there as a painter was useless. But what was really good about it was I was able to learn about all kinds of theory that wasn’t involved in painting […]

So, it was a very broad education. And we looked at all kinds of topical concerns at the time. So [it was during] that 2015-2018, we did [studied the idea of] ‘Fake News…,’ all kinds of stuff around the Trump election and all these kinds of things that were very topical. Which I wouldn’t have got if I went to a painting school.

So that was good. But I did feel that my quench for painting was unslaked. So, I did then enroll in Turps afterwards, which is a painting school […]

So, I mean, what was I making? I was making figurative works based on costumes. It’s kind of been a theme for my kind of practice for a number of years now.

Zoë: I’m looking at two of them [your ‘Paper Clothes’ works] right now! Tell us about your current practice.

Phillip: I’ve been a figurative painter for about 15 years now.

I gradually realized I was becoming less and less interested in the actual kind of figure itself, the person and the flesh, if you like, and I was getting far more interested in the clothes they were wearing, and what they could signify.

So, uniforms in the workplace – hierarchies of uniforms, things that denote rank or denote importance, and I quite like subverting these ideas or kind of poking fun at them… antiquated ideas of uniforms and what they mean in society.

So, I kind of removed the flesh to look to the costume itself. And I was painting costumes on a traditional format of, you know, ‘square a rectangle’ on stretcher bars – like a canvas or a sheet of aluminum. [However], I felt this [practice] still kind of felt insincere.

I wanted to really break the clothing shapes away from the confines of the canvas. So, I started thinking about other ways to present clothing and uniforms.

[One day], I was stood one day on Savile Row and I was looking down at the tailors with all their tailor tools, you know, leather-cutting tools, dress-makers cloths, dress-makers papers, special rulers for cutting curves [etc.] and I thought: “I’d love to have a go at that.”

My mum’s side of the family has a history of being tailors in Central London. I thought it was something I could explore in light of that as well.

So, I started making work out of dressmaker’s paper.

Zoë: Could you describe dressmaker’s paper for people who don’t know what it is? 

Phillip: Often it has dots, or grids, or scores on it, and essentially, it’s a way of tracing a design over and over again for [a] single garment.

There’s a really great haberdashers in town (I don’t think I should do this interview without saying haberdashers… it’s one of my favourite words to say) you can buy a plain version of dressmaker’s paper without the squares or dots.

So I did a lot of testing with it and found this one was the best [medium] for holding oil paint. So, they’re quite fragile works, very delicate, but they were initially an easy and quick way of making artwork.

[However], the more time I spent with them the more detailed they [became]. Now, sometimes, [it can] take me months to finish a piece.

In the show, you saw, there was a piece I made using concrete stain as well – so the idea was to make Brutalist clothing using [this] concrete stain.

So, there’s a concept to the materiality of them as well – using the dressmaker’s paper to make clothes and then concrete to make brutalist, plain clothing.

Zoë: Clothing is an expression of the self, isn’t it? And that’s why I like this project and this idea. 

Also, what’s interesting is with the time and process it takes you to make something – like this shirt that I’m looking at right now. – it’s quite detailed, so there’s an art to clothing [and designing and clothing-making]. 

And behind every piece of clothing, just like art, there’s a story – so for this one, for example, why did you choose that specific shirt?

Phillip: This is actually a self-portrait because I own this shirt – it’s a carpenter’s shirt from the 70’s. I don’t often make work about myself, or put myself in my work so obviously, but I thought I’d make something that was synonymous with myself and my own style.

It’s something I’ve had since about 2014. I don’t wear it very often. But when I do wear it, people will comment on it. I’m not a very bold or bright dresser.

I normally dress like a Victorian street urchin. But so, this is a blue striped shirt. It’s not particularly loud, but it gets attention.

I own two of them, but occasionally they come up in vintage shops or online and I’ll buy them, and a couple of my friends now have them, and so it’s something I can pass on [to] somebody.

[But] it seemed like the right thing to make if I was gonna make something on [or of] my own. I’ve also made football shirts; I’ve made sportswear and all sorts of different garbs.

Zoë: What I like about this is it does have this weight and the pattern says so much about the history behind it, about what decades it’s from… 

Phillip: I also think it really reminds me of Joseph Albers and Agnes Martin

Zoë: I see Agnes Martin, because of the linear pattern!

Phillip: Yeah, because while I’m making it, I’m thinking of these ‘big hitters’ in art history, and so it also nods to them as well.

Zoë: Do you have any advice when it comes to ‘being an artist?’ What would be your insight about creating? For you: Is it all just about creating art, or is it exploring your craft? Having fun? [Which] do you get the most joy from?

Phillip: I’ve always tried to create conditions [which] mean I am enjoying my time in the studio.

 That’s really important to me. I feel like if it becomes a chore, then that’s when I have to stop.

And obviously, there’s certain parts of doing a painting that can be tedious and boring – that take too long, but the overall experience in the studio has to be fun because it’s how I’m spending a lot of time in my life.

So, yeah, I’d say try and create conditions yourself where you’re doing stuff you want to do because otherwise it just becomes a bit of a folly.

Zoë: When you’re in your studio, do you have any like do you listen to music or do you work in silence? How do you get inspiration?

Phillip: Yeah, I listen to music, or I listen to podcasts or I listen to either twaddle on the radio.

Zoë: How do you get ‘in the zone?’

Phillip: What is that Philip Guston quote? I’ll paraphrase it [badly]… but it’s basically him saying ‘you can’t start making work until all your heroes have left the room.’

So, what he’s trying to say is you can’t think about, all your influences and great painters and art history [when you’re creating an artwork] [you have to ‘get out of your head’ when working on your artwork].

I actually think he’s playing a joke on people [when he says or said this quote]. I think he’s trying to make people think about him as the final person to leave the room (but that’s just my opinion).

But the idea of just kind of closing off, shutting out but… I’m here a lot and I’m here on my own. So, I do. I do kind of like listening to more and more audiobooks, for company really!

But there are times when you know you’re doing something like tidying up or something a bit more physically aggressive, like stretching canvases or throwing stuff about where you do want to listen to the Ramones.

Zoë: As far as when you say artistic greats… Who [or what] have been [some of] your other influences? Do you have any great artistic influences?

Phillip: I mean, I love reading about the kind of ‘downtrodden’ – maybe that’s the wrong word to use – but these like really kind of strong characters. People like [artist] Leonora Carrington: I love reading [about her work]. [I also love] reading her written work.

She wrote some really amazing novels and short stories. [I love reading about this] the era that she lived in and all the weird lives these people led.

There are so many examples of artists who have these amazing histories and lives and yeah, I could reel off so many.

Zoë: I like that, I think Leonora Carrington, she’s now coming back into the art world. 

Phillip: Yeah, very topical! Helma af Klimt, as well.

She was really interesting, and into séances and all these ritual things and I love reading about that kind of life, which is so far removed from our [daily life] experience.

Zoë: It’s the escapism too. Thank you so much, Phillip, for being here this has been a really great discussion! 

 

By Zoë Goetzmann (@byzoesera)

Interview with Joanna Pilarczyk – Contemporary Artist

 

This week we visited Joanna Pilarczyk’s (@joannapilarczyk) studio in North London – a colorful neon oasis. 

Joanna is a contemporary figurative painter. She works predominately in oils, as well as in acrylics and in spray paint. Joanna was born in Poland. She studied at the Art University in Zielona Gora where she holds a degree in Visual Arts and in Art Education.

She has exhibited her work internationally in group and solo shows in London and in the United States. Joanna has displayed her work at Saatchi Gallery’s Start Art Fair and The Other Art Fair. 

She recently had a solo show with Oink Gallery,  and Joanna also won the Boynes Monthly Artist Award and was a Women United Art Prize finalist in 2021 and 2022.  She has been featured in art publications such as All She Makes, Art Seen, Create! Magazine and Women United Art Magazine (to name and to list a few).

Her work explores subjects related to nature and intimacy. In this interview, we talk all about her process, and how she works with her subjects: exploring topics such as diversity, representation, and racism when it comes to telling the stories behind the figures in her works. 

We also speak about her artistic inspirations (how this changed pre and post-pandemic) and advice that she would give to other emerging artists embarking on their creative journeys.

You can listen to the unabridged version of the interview via our podcast.

Zoë: So, thank you Joanna, for taking part in this interview. I’m excited to talk to you about your ‘Artist’s Journey,’ and your career, so far. 

So, to begin with, I like to start every interview with I call an ‘Artist Story’… Instead of saying: “How did you become an artist? How did you get here?” 

Could you kind of tell us your ‘Artist Story’ and what led you to become an artist from art school, or, you know, from [your] training? 

Joanna: Okay. It was a pretty easy decision. Like most of us, I knew I would be an artist as I was very creative from an early age.

I should mention that in fact, I have a twin sister. For us both, it was very easy to communicate with other children through art.

I mean, with people generally, as we both were very shy. From the very beginning, when we were around four years old, our uncle taught us how to draw and paint our favourite characters from children’s animations.

And when we were in kindergarten, we were the best in art. Every kid asked us to draw for them and wanted to learn from us.

Zoë: That’s so early [laughs]. It started that early as well.

Joanna: My parents knew immediately that it was worth it to sign us into some after-school art classes. We were lucky to know a lovely person – an artist – in our hometown.

She worked at the local community centre. So, we started from five years old and took those classes for around 15 years. Even in primary school, I was lucky to have excellent teachers. At that point, I was preparing with my sister for the Art College exams.

In the summertime, we took the opportunity to go to Art Planners, which was organised through the community centre. It was cool to meet other artists from Germany, France, and Poland and practice with them.

Most of the attendants were older and more advanced. So, it was even better for us to learn a bit more about painting techniques or some other different stuff.

We started Art College when we were both 15 in a different city, so we had to move out from our home […] It was fun.

Zoë: So you and your sister both went to the same Art College? Oh, wow. And you’re [both] identical?

Joanna: Yes. We’re both identical.

Zoë: Okay, so both of you were gifted in the arts. Is she still an artist? 

Joanna: She’s still an artist but now works as a tattoo artist. She always was more interested in realistic, almost hyper-realistic, drawing and painting.

And my way of artistic expression was more impressionistic and expressionistic [that kind of style].

Zoë: I was wondering if your styles ever differed [or differ]?

Joanna: When we were teenagers and students at Art College, the teachers at the beginning, especially in the first year, had difficulty recognising whether [my twin sister] or I painted one of the paintings or drawings or whatever.

So at the start, our styles were very similar for a long time. And then we started taking directions when we were older.

Zoë: So what happened and/or where did you go after college [career-wise]? 

Joanna: After art college, I had a two-year break. And I went to work briefly in Warsaw and wanted to work as a video game designer. I was into designing video game characters.

And at that time, I was in a relationship. I thought living in a bigger city would be a good idea. But after two years, I realized I needed to study.

I wanted to learn more about art generally. So I returned to West Poland and moved to Zielona Gora, where I continued my further art education. My friend studied his art education at the same University. He started two years before.

He told me that it would be a better opportunity for me to learn more about – for example, printmaking, sculpture, photography, multimedia, not only painting or drawing. This would be a better chance for me to try everything.

Through those five years, I was happy to work with excellent professors. But at the end of these five years, I decided to graduate with a diploma in Figurative Painting, specifically portraiture.

Zoë: Were you always a painter? 

Joanna: Yes. I think painting was the most important medium for me, because I love to express myself in colour.

Zoë: Can you tell me a little bit about your practice (as we sit with all of your paintings). There’s so much colour surrounding us in this studio. 

Joanna: About my artistic practice, I think it is a pretty important fact to point out that I grew up in the ’80s in Poland when the country was controlled by the Soviet Union.

As a child, everything was kind of ‘grey’ for me in our country. I couldn’t obtain colourful crayons or markers or paints. So we had minimal supplies.

And I remember, around the ’90s, when I was around 15, I started watching American movies and TV shows. I really loved Miami Vice, which was all about neon’s, as you can imagine.

I was so fascinated by this American world. It was so different from Poland. But still, for a long time, I couldn’t achieve this colourful aesthetic in my paintings because of the limitation of materials. It was a problem for me.

When I moved here to London 12 years ago, I was suddenly surrounded by people from all over the world, with different personalities and skin colours.

I also could discover other materials to work with and achieve my creative vision. I created my own visual style.

Zoë: What mediums do you work with predominantly?

Joanna: Primarily, it’s always oil paint because I like how the oils mix. I love the smell. The texture of oils. I liked the fact that I can paint in oils, almost like in watercolours. When I realized I needed a more vivid colour palette, I started experimenting with adding acrylics to oils, which is quite unusual.

Everyone is saying: “You can’t mix oils with acrylics…” But if the acrylics are of good quality, it is possible.

Zoë: I love that you said you love the smell of oils. I also do love the smell as well … 

Joanna: I love it. The smell. The oily texture. The brushes. They are so different. I teach watercolour techniques, and I still like to paint with inks on paper, but the oils’ vibrance and texture are the best for producing colourful paintings.

That’s the most important for me and my artistic practice.

Zoë: What do you like most about figurative painting? And how do you choose the subjects that you paint?

Joanna: When I was at University, I usually painted my friends, which was the obvious choice. I like to get to know someone more and tell the story behind their faces. With my friends, we would discuss their lives, problems, achievements, etc.

When I moved to London, I was overwhelmed with this vast multicultural environment: different people and skin tones (etc.). It was very inspiring for me. Fashion became another form of inspiration. My partner is a fan of video games.

And as a motion graphic designer, he works with animation a lot. It gave me the idea of incorporating these pictures into my paintings. Especially the neon colours and the various textures. I should mention ‘the pandemic time’ because it was slightly different.

I couldn’t work with people. So I started focusing for the first time on myself and my husband as the subjects of my paintings. It was terrifying at the beginning. I really didn’t like the idea of painting myself.

But after a few self-portraits, I’ve become used to it. I distanced myself from who I am. Mainly if I painted my body, I felt more like I was painting some other woman who wasn’t me. It was a different story when I painted my husband or my cats.

Zoë: What’s your least favorite thing maybe about the art world [about being an artist or about being in the art world]? 

Joanna: I think it’s all about – unfortunately – money. Like in every business. I don’t like this. [I] probably wasn’t aware when I was in Poland, how important is to pay for everything.

It’s not for free: the exhibitions, the open calls. Everyone has to realise [these facts]. People who don’t appreciate artists [should realize that it is a] 24-hour job: doing business, paying for everything, planning everything, and being [staying] mentally sane.

There [are a lot of] dark areas, which I don’t like, but we kind of deal with it.

Zoë: Is there anything that you wish that people knew about being an artist? 

Joanna: I think they should just know that from the early hours when we wake up, it’s all about thinking about art. And the reason why we wake up is to create.

It’s not [just] a hobby. It’s not like: “Oh, I’m leaving and doing this job, but from time to time, I’m going to paint this and I want $10,000 for this or whatever.”

It’s very hard work, and a learning process […] that should be appreciated.

Zoë: Definitely. I think that’s important to know. And then: from ‘Artist-to-Artist,’ is there any advice that you would give to emerging artists embarking on their creative journeys?

Joanna: Be honest. Be yourself. Don’t be afraid to take part in [art] competitions, even if [you might] fail, it is worth it.

Because people: [i.e. curators] see those paintings or sculptures, so [artists] have to push [through] the door and do everything [they can] to show our work.

Zoë: Is there any advice you’d give to artists about confidence [from pricing artwork to submitting or exhibiting artwork]? 

Joanna: Everyone has different spectrums [in terms of how they] think about the creative process.

[With] pricing, I [tend to] think about how long it [took] me to learn about art: 10 years of study plus some other expenses […], doing workshops, courses, coaching with art curators. Of course, the time [it takes] creating [a] painting, which for me takes few weeks [or] usually [a] few hours every day. The pricing of materials [should also be included in the artwork price].

I was in the situation when [a] gallery from Colorado [in the early part of my career], they told me [they were going to sell my painting] for 4000 pounds. And at that point, my pricing was much lower. It was about 2000, I guess.

Then, in [this] situation, when they [displayed it] in [the] gallery space, I had to raise the prices everywhere and it was a problem because for a long time, I wasn’t able to sell.

I felt like it was a bit too quick, too high, you know, so [artists] have to be careful about [these pricing level changes].

And [I’ve] had this conversation a lot with Daniel Freaker (@freakerstudio) whose point of view is completely different: he suggests starting from a much lower price, because it’s better when the potential [first] collectors have your painting[s] in their home already for [a] cheaper price, because they will be back later for more. It’s better to build up the price slowly, in his opinion. It’s very easy to make mistake[s] about [this process].

I felt like I did something which I shouldn’t, I lower the prices after the situation and wait.

Zoë: What’s the best thing about actually being an artist in London? About this community here?

Joanna: I think that the best part is that we have so many opportunities here and even if starting from the local cafe, showing everywhere and just build[ing] up the visibility, building up [your Artist] CV [it] is so important. Definitely in London, I’m happy to connect with more people, especially after the art fairs. For example, [after The Other Art Fair], I was invited [to participate in a] solo show with Oink Gallery.

So, it is important to be in [places] like London or Paris probably where [these opportunities are] possible.

Zoë: How much networking do you [per] via in-person and on instagram? 

Joanna: Once the artist starts to exhibit and [participate in] art fairs, it’s important to [participate] regularly. Instagram, of course, is very important: posting (not like [a] crazy amount), because I’m not that kind of person, but maybe twice a week or three times a week (doing some IG Stories). I usually promote my post[s] also on Instagram to get more followers.

This is the way how it works and [it’s] worth it.

Zoë: And for artists who are just starting in the art fair circuit and landscape, what’s the best way to maximize your time there? What’s the best strategy, because it’s quite costly for some young, emerging artists? 

Joanna: I think, first of all post about it [the art fair] a few weeks earlier and show [a few] new works, which [you] are going to exhibit and I think just talking to people.

It’s so important to talk face-to-face with everyone at [art fairs] […] It’s so important to talk to everyone and be very open and very honest about what you do […]

Zoë: Looking back, what advice would you give to younger Joanna (five-year-old or Art School Joanna) on your artistic career? 

Joanna: The advice to myself when I finished that university [is that] I should have moved out earlier, or if not, if I [were to have stayed] in Poland, I should connect with people via social media much earlier: [with] other artists, art curators, do research, connect with platforms for my art could be promoted.

I’m talking now to Polish artists who are [still] in Poland: take your time, learn English, and connect with other worlds online. Make sure to have [you work featured in] publications [i.e. in art magazines], so people can learn about you [and] your art.

Zoë: Be written about and grow your community now [at this moment]. Thank you so much Joanna for taking part in this interview. This has been really great. We’ve had a nice, literal sit-down conversation and discussion. 

Joanna: On the carpet in my living room/studio!

Zoë: And there’s so much colour. That’s why it’s such a happy place.

By Zoë Goetzmann (@byzoesera)

Interview with Lucian – Figurative Painting Artist

 

This week, Cosimo Studio Tours visits artist Lucian’s (@thelucianthepainter)’s studio near Primrose Hill.

Lucian is a graduate of the University of the Arts London, Camberwell College. With a professional background in advertising, Lucian works as an oil painter. 

His work alters (and often subverts) the traditions of figurative painting. Lucian’s artistic influences range from Egon Schiele to (even) Damien Hirst for his commercial mindset. 

In this interview, our discussion covers a range of topics from art school, the necessities of art school, art world gatekeeping and ‘art world snobberies,’ the conflicting opinions on Damien Hirst (and his ‘art-selling genius’), art marketing, as well as how artists can begin to adopt a more entrepreneurial approach when it comes to making a living and a career as an artist. 

Lucian exhibited a solo show on Kings Road in Chelsea last fall in 2022. 

This upcoming Spring and Summer 2023, he will exhibit a series of photography, figurative paintings and works in a second solo show in London.

You can listen to the full interview as a podcast here.

Zoë: Thank you so much, Lucian, for taking part in this interview with Cosimo Studio Art Tours. The first question we start out with, [is] I like to call it ‘An Artist’s Story.’

Can you tell us a little bit about your ‘Artist Story?’ How you became an artist, that journey that led you [to that path]?

LUCIAN: Yeah, it’s an interesting one, there was never really a sort of decision. It was – I think – more a compulsion.

But, you know, from early childhood, like lots of kids I liked to draw. But I think, probably the key moment or a critical moment, was when I started taking life drawing lessons around, I think I was 14 or 15.

And I think from then it just became to me like, no doubt in my mind, that was something I really wanted to pursue: ‘being an artist.’

And, you know, from then on, there was no question of me doing anything other than going to art school, I was never gonna go to university and do something else after that. It was clear to me that that was the path that I wanted to follow.

From there, though, you know, having said that, on leaving art school, I had no idea how to be an artist – certainly not professionally… that’s something I’m still figuring out now.

But it occurred to me that I should at least get a job that was similarly creative and had some sort of similarities.

So, I spent the last 15 years working in advertising. And that sort of segue happened, I think when I was writing my dissertation. And you know in art school… you went to art school, right, as well?

Zoë: Sort of. Art Business School… [laugh].

LUCIAN: [Probably similarly then], a lot of people [write] their dissertations [in art school], they write them about like something quite theoretical, maybe like the title might be something like: ‘Exploring the Symbolism of X,Y,Z in post X Y, Z,’ you know, on ‘so and so’s work’ or something.

But I wrote mine on the economics of the art market and to put that in context, at the time, it was when Damien Hirst did his ‘Beautiful Inside My Head Forever’ exhibition and sold that golden calf on the night that Lehman Brothers collapsed.

And I was ‘there’ in London and that’s what that’s what was happening in the art world. That was the art world at that moment in time.

And so, it occurred to me that that was the most interesting thing happening and something that just piqued my interest was the intersection really of commerce, art, and creativity.

And so yeah, in writing that, I was researching a lot of branding and advertising… how that stuff works.

And then I thought, hang on, this sounds like a job that I could do that I could enjoy that I could use to fund my art practice and maybe learn a thing or two along the way, that might actually come back into my back into my artwork, which it kind of has, yeah.

Zoë: Before I go into your art practice, because you mentioned Damien Hirst and art school…

Do you have specific artistic influences? Who are they? And did you kind of look to them to model your career off of? Entrepreneurially as well?

LUCIAN: Yeah. Yeah, I think certainly, Damien Hirst. You say what you want about his art, but he’s a phenomenal businessman.

Do we do we need 20,000 different spot paintings? Probably not. But…

Zoë Goetzmann: I hope you meet him one day [laughs]

LUCIAN: I would love to meet him one day. One thing I find really interesting is – he sort of – (at once) ridicules a lot of the people that buy his work, you know, which [he’s] not the first to do that: Warhol did it, you know: [and] ‘Merde d’artiste,’ was like one of the first examples of it. Banksy’s doing it now even…

I think there was a cycle of, you know, particularly with the ‘Diamond Skull.’ In fact, [one of] the leading quote[s] of [my] dissertation – was one of his: “Selling shit to fools and it’s getting worse.”

So, anyway, what is really interesting with him is how he creates a really consistent, distinctive style from which he can continuously execute, sometimes brilliant, sometimes less good, sometimes not that good, but work that keeps growing and growing and growing.

And the stuff that I found most interesting was when he was then fucking with the whole system of auction houses and collectors around that, you know, ‘Beautiful Inside My Head Forever’ and ‘For [the] Love of God,’ ‘The Diamond Skull.’

So, that combined with the fact that I’ve been working in advertising for 15 years, means I do give a lot of thought to how can I structure my work, my exhibitions, my communications in a way that can help me communicate to many people as possible.

Because I think the practice of selling art, I think it’s part of the work. I think it’s interesting. That’s why, on my pictures, there’s the price tags from a pricing gun that you would have at a corner shop.

It’s part of the work – now whether I’ve heard people say: “That’s sort of trying to be provocative” [and] I’ve heard some people say, “[having] the price [on the work] is boring.” I think both of those two things are true at the same time.

But the cost, the value of something is part of it, you know.

I think it’s an interesting part of human nature and art as an interesting part of human nature is one of like commerce, and like that shared value creation of: “I make this thing because I think it has value,” you come to see it, because it might have value you decide to buy it.

Then one day if I’m, you know, if I go: “Oh, that’s my Hirst” on the wall, there’s an ownership, you own a bit of the artist. I find that interesting. And I find that’s part of the work.

Zoë: There’s a quote that I spoke about with one of my artist friends, Sarah Mehoyas who’s a New York artist, she [says]: “To be an artist, you inherently have to be entrepreneurial.” Which is what Cosimo enables.

LUCIAN: I think more and more now, and in a way, that’s a good thing, because, I saw a meme on ‘The White Pube’ thing about [how] artists used to be able to just sit there think about the art and now you have to be like, trying to [do and promote] content and try and sell it and market it, blah, blah, blah.

And on the one hand, I agree, I would love to have just been plucked out at art school by Saatchi and just been allowed to just be an artist and never think about the rest of this. That would have been my dream scenario back then.

And that didn’t happen, needless to say. But equally, it’s interesting that now, pre-social media (essentially the Internet), how were we supposed to do any of that beyond basically, maybe printing some flyers and trying to get some people to show?

You know, Damien Hirst actually, again, was another example where they kind of blagged a space, they were the first one to really take student shows, like, out of just, it’s: ‘your parents and your friends and your tutors’ – I remember reading he created like letterheads [to just] protect [that sort of]: ‘Fake it till you make’ [vibe],’ you know, in the ultimate sense ….

So, I think on the one hand, it’s sort of stressful having to do more than just the art and [it’s a] lot of work.

On the other hand, it sort of has opened up to a degree, you know, the art market for people who, rather than gallerists being sole gatekeepers, which they are still in a really big way, but at least you’ve got another way of being noticed that it’s slightly more in your own hands than just sending a portfolio out and getting their response.

It’s kind of interesting.

The art world is sort of intellectually snobbish, isn’t it? And it wears that as a coat of armour: to be exclusive, basically.

What’s interesting is that they can’t stop… you know, they sort of, they still have to dance to Damien Hirst tunes, do you know what I mean?

So, you know, I think I think you can be intellectually snobby about anything. I don’t love all of his work to be clear. I think some of it is just a bit tacky.

In, Ways of Seeing by John Berger, he talks about exactly that, you know, that once artworks were no longer physically exclusive (i.e., we can see them in galleries, rather than just being in churches and homes of rich people), then there had to be another way to keep them exclusive.

And that became one of you know, making them as obtuse intellectually as possible. But going back to the question about artistic influence, there’s a lot of classical Western [and] classical Western art was my sort of art history education and broadly speaking, my sort of ‘lived experience,’ what I’ve gone to see.

And within that, I think sort of probably my earliest and most sort of driving influence was Egon Schiele, who is Austrian like me.

I think it was the first time I saw some art that really just grabbed me by the heart and the bollocks at the same time, and just shook me and I remember the first time I went round, a big exhibition of his in Austria, Vienna, and it was like, my heart was racing by the end, you know, and it’s like that – so for me – he’s always sort of remained a core influence, particularly his line work, you know, we talked about, I started in life drawing (his life drawings).

I don’t think anyone’s ever drawn hands as well as him ever. And the sort of raw emotion that comes through his work is phenomenal, obviously.

And then the sort of classical canon of you know, Jenny Saville, Cecily Brown, Lucien Freud, [Francis] Bacon, you know, ‘big British artists.’  So, what’s interesting is, the art history that I learned was basically, you know, classical art – you know: Roman Greek through to Romanticism, Realism, Impressionism, blah, blah, blah, mainly Western European.

I think our history and those senses were quite localized geographically, and went in quite linear ways. At least that’s how you learn them in art history.

And then with the internet, essentially you’ve had this explosion of like much more like pan global art that our learning is tied quite so much to place necessarily.

I love that painter Amoako Boafo. This is such a sort of [a] telling thing about art history being very, particularly from where I grew up in the UK in London, very male dominated – very western dominated, very white dominated.

I only recently, discovered Amrita Sher-Gil, the Indian Hungarian painter.

She was classically trained in Paris in the early 1900s. She was half Indian, half Hungarian, and had a very bohemian mother. She was at the Ecole de Beaux-Arts in Paris in the ’20s. She won [an] art competition really young and exhibited in the salons there – they’re really amazing – but it was when she went back to India, and then applied what she had learned in sort of classical Western French painting and applied that back to her identity (she was a bisexual woman, very liberal woman in India and she’s mixed race) and the work [was] unbelievable.

And yet, me, as a 34-year-old person who went to school in London, did Art History for A Level [and] didn’t discover her until a year ago.

And I mean, that’s obviously quite indicative about, you know, how patriarchal [the art world] still is – art [and] art history – so it’s not a surprise that like a woman of colour, who’s also gay or bisexual, gets written out [of] history to a degree.

A lot of people would say, she’s India’s greatest ever painter and [she] should sit [with or alongside] Frida Kahlo […] [who is also] one of the all-time [great female artists].

I mean, I’m finding things all the time, even people [who are] long gone, from a century ago, but her work is so contemporary, it’s ridiculous.

The main thing I use Instagram for […] it’s like flicking through a magazine of art – like an art magazine, basically – and you go down rabbit holes and you discover artists that you’ve never heard of before.

They might be really famous and you’ve never heard of them or they’re recently graduated. So, in terms of artistic influences, there’s a lot of classical Western ones.

And then, there’ll be a million more. Gary Hume… I always love. All of the YBA – particularly the painters – they just [have this] bold, strong use of colour. I really like art that is ‘immediate.’ That slaps you in the face that drags you in […].

Zoë: Is there anything else you love most about being an artist?

LUCIAN: I think every artist will know this feeling of being: ‘in flow.’ A psychologist called Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi, coined that state.

But it was basically when you’re, you know, that feeling when you’re working, and you should be expending loads of mental energy, but you can seemingly go on for hours and hours and hours, because you’re – some people call it ‘in the zone’ or ‘in the flow’ and you’re doing stuff that requires a lot of brain energy, but you’re not getting tired at all, you’re just smashing away through stuff.

And that psychological state was described as ‘flow,’ and there’s this chart that basically maps out when your talent for something and the difficulty of it matches to a certain point.

Then your brain kind of ‘clicks in’ and you kind of get this like limitless energy to work. I’m sure every artist knows that feeling.

That feeling alone, when you’re when you’re making work is amazing.

Zoë: From a business side, is there any advice you’d give about: 1) Staying focused (not everyone – or not every artist –  [can] keep deadlines). Is there any advice you give about how to stay focused, how to stay motivated?

Are there any useful business tips, especially to art students [that you could share with us at Cosimo Art]?

LUCIAN: Set yourself a goal, I’m trying to set myself a goal of going to an exhibition every week (now that doesn’t sound like it should be that difficult, but it actually really is).

If you’re lucky enough to live in London, or a city where there’s lots of stuff on, I think nothing will motivate you like other people’s artwork being on show.  And for me, I’m thinking: “I wish my work was up in this show.”

So, going to see art exhibitions, big and small, I think has a dual effect of you might learn something new or you might hate something, or whatever, as an artist, and you will respond to the work somehow.

And that will either inspire you because you think that was really amazing. I’ve learned something there and I can include that into my practice, or you might just have loved it so much that it reminds you of your own ambitions to be that good.

Or you might see something that you hate and you think I should be out there now… that hopefully will motivate you too – so I think it’s got a dual purpose.

Just set yourself actual targets and deadlines, long-term and short term, I’ll do one show this year, or whatever.

Or I’ll apply to this many things this week, and just do them.

Zoë: So, why did you want to go to art school? Was it for the technical [aspects and/or side of art and art instruction]?

LUCIAN: I thought it would be like what it used to be like […] you would do life drawing two times a week. You would be like, ‘formally educated’ in the craft of painting, which we weren’t at all. [It was a] huge disappointment.

Zoë: In my interview with Anna [Kolosova] because she went to a school in Russia, where they teach directly [the traditions of art and artistic techniques], this might be a discrepancy between London art schools and art schools outside of London? […] In Russia, they teach you the tradition[s] [of painting].

They let you experiment, but they’re not so great [at the foundational aspects].

LUCIAN: To its detriment, because it’s more important that you get the foundation right – experimentation can come at any stage after that.

Experimentation without the right foundation, the right technification is, you’re basically going: ‘Let’s stand on the shoulders of the giants, the titans of art history that come before us and stand on their shoulders and see a million miles further because you’ve learned what they’ve learned.’

I’m just gonna start from beginning and basically experiment my way to get there. It’s nonsense, and it results in terrible art.

Zoë: With art schools, is it mostly the benefit of putting it [the accreditation] on your CV?

LUCIAN: I didn’t even know that there was a benefit [with putting it on my CV].

I would have to really question though, whether it’s worth it, and you come out with like, 50 grands worth of debt or whatever it costs to go to art school. That is mental.

Zoë: What was the guiding influence that made you want to attend art school?

LUCIAN: I was told I would get [a] formal education. I went for [a] technical education.

It wasn’t there. It [was] disappointing. But I was very lucky in that I met a couple of people who had brilliant painting educations at [previous] schools they’d gone to and I learnt from them. I think the value of [going to art school is] just being able to say I went to Camberwell.

I’m sure it just makes it slightly harder to sort of validate yourself [if you don’t have a degree].

Zoë: Networking [takes up the] majority [of the process of making it as an artist]. You’re going to learn from your [other] colleagues […] I think it’s a benefit [of] Cosimo [because it’s] mostly made for emerging people [artists] who want to just sell work.

[That’s] important… It’s breaking barriers, breaking the standard gallery system, because that’s like John – our founder who launched Cosimo – this dissatisfaction with the gallery system.

But I think maybe art school gives you that intellectual edge…

This was a great discussion. It definitely touches on so many interesting aspects of Art and Art Business. Thank you so much.

LUCIAN: Thank you. I enjoyed it very much!

By Zoë Goetzmann (@byzoesera)

Interview with Anna Kolosova – Contemporary Artist

 

This week we visited contemporary artist Anna Kolosova (@annakolosovaartist) to talk about about her art and painting practice, her synaesthesia (the process of painting based on the senses, one’s surroundings, and this “5-D” world, Kolosova adds), mental health, music, finding one’s confidence, and how she navigates the traditional art and gallery landscapes as a professional artist. 

Anna Kolosova graduated with an MA Degree from Central Saint Martins, and is an internationally exhibited contemporary artist. 

She has shown her work in London, Milan, Düssledorf and Moscow. Her work has been featured in The Guardian, Cosmopolitan, and in Vogue. 

At present, Anna Kolosova is working on digital and NFT projects – exploring the depths of her painterly process.    

Zoë: Hi Anna! Thanks so much for taking part in this interview with Cosimo Art Tours? Let’s start out with the first question.. How did you become an artist? What is your artists’ journey?

Anna Kolosova: Well, it’s pretty cliché. In my case, one of the clichés, is that since I was very little, I’ve always been obsessed with drawing and painting, usually drawing with markers and pen – not pencil, in particular – as a child.

So, I like graphical, mark-making graphs. You could call it ‘graphomania’ – you know – it’s a thing.

My parents were both relatively creative. [My] father had his fashion studio. And they were also in education, and they had their own private school. And so, it was kind of like ‘an intellectual elite vibe.’

So, all their friends were artists, or people in the arts, or education or fashion. So that’s why they suggested I go to study art. In the first and last year, it was an evening school to prepare for the exam for a Russian school, named after [Vasily] Surikov.

There I studied Neo-Realism and Architecture, in Moscow.

Then my mother suggested I check out London for a more contemporary approach to Art Education. And of course, I was a teenager, I followed her advice.

And I came here to do some short courses at Central Saint Martins. I did three short courses. Quite a lot, but one was in Fashion Illustration, in Image-Making, just quite broad, different kinds of image production techniques.

And one was painting, I think. So, I liked how they made us think critically about our work and our methodology, and all that, in the UK.

So, I fell in love with everything I did education-wise here. I moved here to study eventually at Central Saint Martins.

Coming from a realism background, then going into collage and abstraction and sometimes more object-based ‘tableau’, painting in the expanded field.

Zoë: What were some of the differences between studying in art school in Russia versus in the UK or London? Was there a vast difference? Like what were the technical things?

Anna Kolosova: Right. Eye roll. As far as Russian art education goes, it’s very conservative and very technique focused. So you learn how to imitate life that you see in front of you – literally in front of you – not from a photograph, but from real life.

And you learn it the same way, more or less how they learned it, being an apprentice of, I don’t know, Leonardo DaVinci or someone. You learn how to measure everything, the proportions of the body of the skull, of the face, how to create depth in an image – physical (three-dimensional depth).

So how the shadow is cast, and you learn physics of colour and how to mix colour and you learn different techniques of painting and drawing with pencil, graphite, not charcoal that much actually, mostly pencil and egg tempera.

Well, because I took the architecture path, so we didn’t learn oil [painting]. We learned egg tempera, acrylic a bit, watercolour and [working with] pencil using just brown or black water colour to create with water basically monochrome, sort of like a black and white image – which is called “Grisaille” which is a French or Italian origin of that style. I did learn oil along the way also, just for my own sake.

It’s very different. I do not like it that much. They [Art Schools in Russia] don’t teach you much of contemporary, actually, at all any contemporary art or modern art history.

They teach you some of the old masters. That kind of history, but not even that much. It is more about just literally the technique, and you sit there for days and days and months and months. To make this image fall out of the paper or canvas, which is that realistic.

That’s why it’s called ‘Neo-Realism.’

Zoë: Was it good to have that foundation looking back?

Anna Kolosova: Yes, I believe so. Because you also learn how to construct the composition as well.

However, it ‘makes you think in space’ – that’s I think a quote from Tracey Emin, if I’m not mistaken, she said something like that. It’s very important to look, to sketch from real life. Because if you think differently about your surroundings, that can transfer into conceptual thinking later on as well.

Especially now that we have all this technology, such as VR [virtual reality] makes you think about it, which I’m now starting to use *spoiler* for my next upcoming project, potentially TBC.

Here in the UK, they teach you how to think and how to reflect, which you don’t get much of in Russia, unfortunately, because their people are very conservative in everything as we can see what’s happening right now.

So they teach you all the techniques, which they don’t teach you here, but then here they teach you how to think, but not the techniques. I’m glad I have a bit of both.

Zoë: It’s good to have a bit of both, honestly. You have the best of both worlds a little bit. When you studied architecture, was that something your family asked you to do and/or suggested? 

Anna Kolosova  Yes, we went with the Architecture path, because this style of realism they had was one I prefer.

There were a few pathways that one could have chosen. The others, they were learning oil and a freer kind of approach to painting. More free and yet very brown-based, [all] the colours. Less exciting, basically, in my opinion.

As far as Realism goes, I really like, you know, [artists such as] Van Eyck and [similar] Old Masters.

Because we used tempera. So [a] very old technique. And I kind of like it. Same as the graphics with markers and when you have to use the brush almost as a pencil to make strokes, almost to construct, you know, I mean, I’d have to show you how would that mean to create that same way as you used pencils for the shadow to add more marks in the same area to concentrate the contrast in that part for where the shadow is?

You do the same with the brush with tempera and it dries straight away and dries in seconds. You can already put new marks on top of it.

The previous marks are very linear and the contrast between the light part of an object, where it touches the darker background, and it’s just something quite fashionable or delicious about it. I don’t know how to explain it.

Zoë: That’s cool. This goes into the next question about your art practice and like the mediums and themes you work with: What made you want to choose painting in the end? 

Because you said you studied three short courses at Central Saint Martins. What made you just pursue painting? 

Anna Kolosova: Well, I pursued contemporary art and not just painting. I did collage. I did a little bit of video and performance, but yes, mostly painting.

So, I think painting is a state of mind. This sounds so cringeworthy. Painting is a state of mind – to me. Painting can be anything: ‘Painterly.’ Even when you look around on the street, like you know that Facebook Group: “Involuntary Painting” which has an art manifesto to it, (I’m an admin of it, I’m involved a lot) – so you can see images on the street that if you’re ‘an alien’ (for example) coming down to this planet, you would think that could be a piece of modern art basing on the algorithm of meanings of what creates a piece of modern art, for example.

And I guess I just have an eye for this for the composition and that’s why I can not not paint or not not not see things as paintings.

But I like to challenge these notions through using different mediums and going into more sculpture or more performance. Now, VR – who knows what will happen? You know? But I see everything as paintings.

Zoë: Would you be able to go into your synaesthesia? Could you talk a little bit about how your synaesthesia affects your [painting process and] how you see your paintings visually and your visual, painting practice? 

 

Anna Kolosova: It’s interesting you asked me this question about synaesthesia in the context of what I was talking about just before, about ‘seeing,’ like a random splash of something on the street and it looks like an image made on purpose but it was not made on purpose.

So, for example, whoever picks out [a] certain compositionally constructed strong image – be it made on purpose or by accident – I don’t know something, like, like a rusty piece of metal that the builders left somewhere and then maybe it looks like the coolest abstract canvas, you know, that you could put on your wall.

But not many people would notice it, the beauty in that, and the value in that. They would walk by. But if someone chooses to see it as beauty, for example, as far as painting, it could be that those people have a different kind of vision [or] inner vision.

Also makes me think of this philosophical concept of Daniel Dennett – a contemporary living philosopher, he talks about this term called: ‘Qualia’.

It’s complex. It’s about images. And it’s about like, for example, if you see an image, he gives an example: ‘it’s an American flag, but all the stripes are green instead of red.

And he goes, “Well, do you do you see the green flag or the red flag?” You see the green one. But in your head, you also see the red one like the way it’s always been, you know? So that’s ‘Qualia.’

So, in synaesthesia, for example, when I see numbers or letters, I see them the way they are, but in my head, they also have a different colour automatically. Always the same.  And the sounds have a colour and shape (sometimes yes, sometimes no shape).

The answer is yes, it has an impact on how I paint. I think I’m trying to paint from reality that is in my head. Because they say, there are some theories that synaesthesia comes from 5D [Fifth Dimension] – they say, you know, all the spirituality that we know of comes from.

Because there’s other dimensions beyond that, but we just don’t have any access to them much yet. And basically, when I see visions for sound, I try to paint something similar to what I see. It’s like painting from life like I used to with Realism.

But the still-life is in my head. Except it’s not ‘still’ it’s ‘moving.’

Zoë: What other themes and mediums do you work with in your painting practice? 

Anna Kolosova: Mental health, spirituality, relationships – kind of romantic relationships. Human nature, but that’s similar to mental health.

Zoë: How do music and spirituality affect your work? How do you bring that into your artistic practice? What music do you tend to listen to when you create? You used to make dancing videos on social media … 

Anna Kolosova: Music? Well, because it’s always been a big part of my life as well. Both literally playing an instrument and recording songs and going to singing school.

But I wasn’t as good at it as I was at painting. I had to choose one to pursue it more deeply. So, I went for this, but I obviously still listen to a lot of different music.

I love discovering new music. I always spent, you know, effort to discover it on SoundCloud and other platforms and going to music events, both classical and electronic, and IDM, which is ‘Intellectual Dance Music.’

I wouldn’t call myself a connoisseur.. But ‘a lover of music’ and ‘an explorer.’ And I always date musicians … [both laugh].

Zoë: How does listening to this type of music feed into your creative process? 

Anna Kolosova: It depends. Sometimes I paint to the music and sometimes it’s just on in the background. There are times I don’t use music.

Very rarely. It’s not as pleasurable without music, as it is with. Because music makes it easier, not easier, but just adds a different dimension to ‘zoning out’ whilst I‘m painting.

Zoë: As you said: “Painting is a state of mind.” So, I don’t think that’s cheesy, at all. Artists have to be in the state [of mind] and you just ‘zone out’ and block everything out.

Anna Kolosova: When I said: “Painting is a state of mind,” I meant also the whole lifestyle. And literally: where you go, what you listen to, what you wear, with whom you collaborate. Everything.

Zoë: Onto the bonus questions that we ask everyone: What do you love most about being an artist?

Anna Kolosova: I love the lifestyle. I love that I can professionally ‘create.’

And part of that process is going to look at other people’s work and museums. And, working with other creatives, as well, and getting inspired.

But yeah, I think sometimes my paintings express more of myself than I can even do so myself, without painting. Sometimes I think my paintings are cooler than me!

Zoë: I’m writing that down. That’s also a tee-shirt! [laughs]. 

Anna Kolosova: When I was a kid, I was very shy and socially in-equipped at all. And expressing myself was the only way to escape from that reality.

And I was always expressing myself 24/7 even then. So, I find that, well, I don’t know exactly what it is, but it helps ‘my ego’ I guess.

 

Zoë: As an only child [which I can also relate to], you have to live in your imagination, most of the time … 

Anna Kolosova: So, yeah, I guess sometimes, I was happy to be by myself. And other times, I was also very lonely.

So, depending on the day, I think, because my parents were always very busy and doing very cool things.

No doubt. And other times I was actually not willing to go outside. Like I never went outside. I was always alone by myself drawing, playing with my dolls, whatever else.

And whenever I would have to, you know, perform or something like that, dress up, it would empower me always.

So, I think it’s the same now. Not much has changed… That when I paint I feel most empowered. I feel sexy. I feel most developed as a human being. But I feel sexy not as a woman, but as a human being. Or part alien in this human experience.

Zoë: Anna’s not from this world [laughs]. 

Anna Kolosova: I don’t think any of us are, in the arts! No.

Zoë: Onto the more challenging questions: There’s a lot of things probably in the art world you would change, what is kind of one thing or your least favourite [thing] that you’d want to change in the art world?  

Anna Kolosova: I don’t like to be under pressure, too much, to have to create for money.

That’s the only thing. I like deadlines when it comes to putting on exhibitions. But whenever it concerns any financial aspects of this process.

I do feel the opposite of ’empowered.’ Whenever it doesn’t work out in my favour. When it does, of course, I feel great.

So, it depends. Because creativity shouldn’t be limited to the financial aspects.

Zoë: That’s helpful for us as a platform, because we’re trying to empower artists and help them be able to sell and give them the confidence to do so. 

Does the ability and guarantee to sell work provide you with a sense of stability? Business-wise, is there anything that helps you ease this anxiety?

Anna Kolosova: Anything that pays me every month would give me [that] peace of mind.

So, for example, in Norway or France, they give grants to artists, just because… it doesn’t matter on their merits, I don’t think.

I think there should be companies sourcing money somehow to crowd-fund and/or through donors, just giving out money to anyone – doesn’t have to be large sums of money – just anything that an artist can receive every month, even if it’s 200 pounds, doesn’t matter.

At least you know that you have it every month and you have like a budget for art materials or anything like that.

Because if you don’t know whether you’re gonna receive money the following month, you are less eager to buy new canvases and produce more or something like that.

So, of course, yes, networking opportunities, to meet dealers, collectors, patrons. If I invest in a solo show and then I can’t afford rent next month and end up being, you know, like a squatter, homeless or whatever else.

As most artists are facing these issues, or otherwise they have to commit to a full-time job, but, I mean, I want to enjoy life. I don’t want to be ‘a slave’ to ‘this non-working system’ where creativity is NOT a must, for some reason.

Zoë: I think that’s helpful. That’s what we’re trying to do too. At the same time, bringing two worlds together: the traditional and online space, but then also ‘break the gallery system’ and empower artists who want to sell and so that they can actually sell their work and that people can support them. 

This goes hand-in-hand with the previous question: Is there one thing that you wish that people knew about being an artist? Can be the financials or besides the financial aspects? 

Anna Kolosova: I suppose the one thing is: validation.

An artist shouldn’t feel like they need validation. They should try to be happy with their progress. It’s also very difficult to be happy fully with your results as an artist, because there’s always room for improvement.

No matter how good the piece is. Well, it’s kind of one or two things in one, and when you get multiple rejections from institutions, or you know, gallerists or other artists, if they disapprove of your aesthetic, for example, it hurts.

You shouldn’t be discouraged. That’s the most difficult part. I think for every artist, because eventually you do find your niche(s).

Zoë: That’s me as a writer. You’ll find a publication and/or a gallery that likes you or your work [who wants to print or exhibit your work]. Another woman artist, I know, did note that there’s a pressure for women artists to always have a perfect portfolio. 

And for men, they can – from her experience – submit their portfolios as it is. Men have more of this ‘false confidence,’ where they just say ‘just look at it’ [some male artists, not all male artists].

What advice would you give to emerging artists who want to choose this pathway or is there any advice that you would give, creative-wise and/or business-wise?

Anna Kolosova: So, at art school they don’t teach you anything about sales. When you leave school, you might need to become a receptionist or unless you have a trust fund then you’re fine.

But if you don’t have a trust fund, you need to like ‘hustle.’ You need to have a plan of action, which I still don’t have much, but I do things differently myself. I try to kind of go with the flow. And eventually I kind of get there, but it’s a longer road.

I could have reached what I wanted, by now. had I been more strategic about things, and they don’t teach you this strategy at University.

Unless you’re studying art business. So, this should be taken into account that they need to find that info by themselves from books, articles, courses, workshops, talking to other artists, curators.

Have a strategy in place by the end of their University if they decide to take the path of art education, because otherwise, you stumble upon a lot of difficulties.

You don’t get the desired result in your life, or you get surprised, because you were told it’s ‘like this and like that’.

Actually, no… It’s very hypocritical, the whole system. If you go by the textbook, it doesn’t guarantee you anything.

And a lot of people who succeed academically, they end up not becoming artists. Actually, I’ve noticed from my personal experience, they ended up doing something else.

Zoë: That’s why I always ask people what their ‘Artists’ Story’ is because usually everyone who’s in the Arts did something creative. Everyone did that. 

People ask, “are you an artist?” And my response is always: “I think everyone started out as an artist, at one point in their life [or earlier on in their life].” 

Anna Kolosova: I guess my advice would be: to just know that it’s not going to be an easy road. Most likely, unless sometimes, I guess.

So, because you always have to balance between: ‘what your heart wants and what this three-dimensional matrix wants.’

Zoë: What is in store for you in the future? Art-wise?

Anna Kolosova: Exploring the digital realm, NFT’s – we [Anna and her collaborator] are planning to launch a collection that we already made last year, but there was a dip in the [crypto] market. So we’re waiting for a better time to actually sell it.

And now we’re working on another project which will combine elements of video and digital graphical elements TBC.

Zoë: What do you like about NFT’s? 

Anna Kolosova: I like that it has an element of freedom. Creative freedom. So with something I can’t do with physical painting,

I can do there [in the digital landscape]. Because it can encompass ‘text floating around an object with sound’ that the painting cannot do.

Zoë: And then, looking back, what advice would you give to your younger self, aside from ‘having a plan [or strategy]?’ Is there any other specific advice you’d give to your younger artists self? 

Anna Kolosova: Be more confident. I missed out on so many opportunities. They were throwing themselves at me. I could be really famous right now.

 

Zoë: With galleries or with making other art world connections? 

Anna Kolosova  Both. I would send an email, or receive a reply, and [someone would write back]: “Oh, contact my office, set up something with my PA.”

I would email the information, [sometimes receive] no response and then I would get insecure [and think], “they probably don’t want me. I’m not going to bother them again. And that’s it.”

Zoë: What would help with your confidence? Is it just internal? 

Anna Kolosova: Yes. Like my artwork was good already then, but I didn’t think I was good enough. So, nothing happened.

Zoë: That goes with what you said about the validation. 

The validation should come from within you. I know how difficult art school is. They put you through a lot of stress to become ‘the best.’ 

And I think that’s like a positive and like a negative, a little bit. In that traditional sphere, they put a lot of pressure on artists, when we’re supposed to celebrate art. 

It’s hard for artists to handle that stress. They’re not always built for it, so artists have people [like gallerists, agents, dealers] to handle it. 

Anna Kolosova: Even when you get a big opportunity, and if you’re still quite young, it’s you against the world suddenly. You don’t know your limits, your boundaries, your skills, your advantages, [your] disadvantages.

You don’t know yet who you are. So, even if other people think your work is good, or that – you as “a professional” are good, you might still find that you get paranoid and insecure.

Zoë: The reason why it’s hard for artists to ‘think business-wise’ is just because to make art, there’s a lot of emotions that go into it. 

Emotions don’t really translate into business. It’s a little bit hard to be vulnerable, which is a benefit for you [as an artist]. 

For you as an artist, you have assets that people in the gallery world don’t have. They don’t understand.

Anna Kolosova: Yeah, and the fear of rejection is just insane but I’m trying to overcome it with therapy and coaching and self-work and everything, but it is very difficult.

By Zoë Goetzmann (@byzoesera)

Interview with Art Elusive – London-Based Artist

 

This week, Cosimo Art Studio Tours takes a trip down to Islington to visit Art Elusive, @artelusive (Purity is her real name) to visit her studio and flat.

This year, the artist is preparing for her second solo show, Something About Existence – a follow-up to her first show, Something About Connection – (a darker, underground, and grunge-debut for Art Elusive), which she curated herself at Dalston Den.

Art Elusive works in oils and acrylics, using spray paint to outline her initial sketches on canvas…

Her work is personal and often autobiographical. She is a largely self-taught artist whose influences range from her own artist friends, mentoring street and graffiti artists, to Jean-Michel Basquiat, Keith Haring to Michelangelo, who, as she explains, Art Elusive will use influence from a figurative and from a compositional standpoint).

She is also inspired by London artist Sophie Tea (@sophieteaart) from an entrepreneurial perspective.

In this interview, we talk about it all: inclusivity, accessibility, her painting process (why she will play one song continuously in order to, stay, as she explains, in her own painting “time-loop” until her work is finished), the London art scene, heartbreak, race, DIY-ing her own artistic career, doing her best to maneuver adversity, learning the business of promoting and selling artwork, as well as the process of curating her first and second solo shows.

Zoë: Thanks so much for speaking with Cosimo Art: Studio Tours. Let’s start out with the first question: Tell me your ‘Art Story?’ How did end up becoming an artist? 

Art Elusive: My name is Art Elusive, and I started painting when I was younger as an escape from life and what was going on at that time.

And as I’ve just, grown, I guess it’s just been a part of me like I’ve never been able to shake it. So, I naturally just fell into selling my artwork. But, for a long time, I was just painting and just practicing and learning from other artists.

I didn’t go to university. I just painted at college, doing Art and Design.

And then, I dropped out. And just carried on painting, meeting artists, go into their studios, and just learning different techniques and just doing little small group exhibitions and then naturally selling my artwork.

Zoë: Is that where your name comes from? The Art Elusive part? 

Art Elusive: Basically, one person called me ‘Elusive’ when I was a teenager, so it kind of stuck.

And then as I grew, a lot of people call me ‘Elusive.’ Like I just don’t kind of dip in and out of like, ‘What’s happening?’ Sneaky…” For a teen[ager], it’s a bit ‘posh.’

I also used to love this song by Lianne La Havas that was called ‘Elusive.’

So, I was like, “This was meant to be.”

So, I started just calling myself: ‘Purity Elusive Art” and then I was like, “I’ll drop my name. I can’t be bothered.”

I suppose as you get to know me… “Yeah okay, cool. She’s here one minute. Next minute she’s gone.”

Zoë: I like the mysterious vibe. Can you describe your art practice? The media you work with, the themes you explore?

Art Elusive: I think, what happens with me, the way that my painting style is… like it goes in [and] ‘loops around.’

So, because I started off doing portraits, just using like acrylic and oils, and I absolutely loved it. Like I practice the hell out of it.

Like I’ve done. I was just going in like, I was just trying to be the best portrait artist. And then somewhere along that as I was selling, like doing commissions, I kind of felt like I was painting for money not for like joy, like not it’s not coming from inside of me like do not mean this is just like what people kind of want to see themselves, which was interesting.

So, then I was like, I’m just going to be more free so I completely abandoned references and I was like, “[eff] that.” I’m just gonna paint figures and bodies and souls, basically what’s inside of you not what’s on the outside, because I’ve done that for so long.

So that’s where all the abstract kind of art comes from. And then somewhere in the middle, I merged them together, but I mainly always use acrylic, some kind of like oil stick or oil paint, and then spray paint like it’s always a mixture on my canvas.

Zoë: Can you kind of describe the process of how you create one of your paintings? 

Art Elusive: Basically, it comes from feeling[s], so when I feel a certain kind of way, I’ll be like, “Okay, I’m going to portray this” and I’ll usually listen to the same song.

So, it’s kind of like I’m trying to keep myself trapped in at one time.

So, I’ll listen to the same song all day. I would like just be in the same place basically in here, and I usually just start with spray paint and paint out the figures.

And then I’ll go in with like oil stick or oil paint and I always do like a light wash underneath and so like, [a] base of what it is.

Let that dry. I’ll probably work on another one, but I just keep myself in ‘the time loop’ like that same song like I can’t stop doing it. Mainly it’s just about the feeling.

I kind of attach it to a song and naturally happens. It’s not like something that I practice, but I have observed that’s what happened.

I attached that feeling to a song. And I’ll just rinse it until I’m done.

Zoë: With oils and acrylics, did you just practice [these techniques] in college? 

Art Elusive: In college, in school, obviously, my art teachers were brilliant.

Especially in college, my art teacher, Miss Sylvester. She was the best.

But, she basically just taught us everything and she gave us so much freedom as well as like critiquing our work.

So like composition I was always so bad at backgrounds and sh*t like that. She always used to tell me, “You need to try harder” and stuff.

But when I dropped out, I was kind of like had to learn for myself. That’s where other artists came in.

And that’s when when I was using other mediums like spray paint. I never learnt that in college, but I learnt that from actual graffiti artists that I became friends with that  gave me advice it. Gave me pointers, do you know what I mean?

Even before my show, like I have a couple of friends that will come to my studio, they’re artists and they look rather than helped me pick what I want to put in my show.

So, my last one every choice was like a collaboration between friends. So as most of this stuff that I’ve learned is just trial and error as well.

Now, I think with this exhibition [at Dalston Den later this year], that I’m doing, and focus more on the composition, because I want to show a feeling, I’m so used to just due to person and a pretty background, you know for a commission.

Yeah, so I’m trying to bring in the real life of what’s going on.

Zoë: What do you like about working with oils or acrylics?

Art Elusive: I like them all like the same. I love them all the same. Because I love trying to marry them together and make them one thing.

So, some people will look at a painting. They don’t even know that there’s spray paint in that painting.  I liked them all together.

But I do use acrylic the most like majority of my paintings are mostly acrylic. And it’s just because I like how it dries.

I like that I can quickly go, like I said, I’m trying to stay in ‘the time loop’ so I give myself like 24-48 hours. I just want to do it quick. But still, like just stay in the zone,

Zoë: What do you love most about being an artist? Is there one thing? Can it be a few things? 

Art Elusive: I love like, looking at the bigger picture of it. And thinking like, “This is a like, it’s a moment that is happening now. It’s like a state – a part of history. It stays at that part of the timeline.

Like this is what it was made. Yeah, like this [by this] person here. I just like that. It’s like, a part of history.

You know, even the fact that I’m painting people that like really exist, it’s like they’re never gonna be that age again – you know, that’s what I love about it.

And you’ll never be able to be portrayed at that age at that time. Like that again, it just doesn’t exist again.

Zoë: In the age of Instagram, you can just take a photo, but it takes longer to take a painting and there’s another beauty we love a beauty to it. So well said. It’s such a good observation. 

There’s probably a lot of things you would change about your world. What is your least favourite thing in the art world and/or what would you change in the art world?

Art Elusive: I think the thing for me, when we’re speaking about the art world, I have to speak about the art world in London because I don’t know anything else.

But here in London, I just feel the one thing that does that grinds my gears is kind of inclusivity, but that’s how I feel personally for myself.

So, that just might be me being, you know, ‘the depressed artist,’ pissed that they’re not getting ‘their in,’ but, you know, I’ve been turned down by a lot of galleries.

I’ve gone, I’ve put myself out there and I’ve been directly shut down… and you’re not immune.

Yeah, I don’t know what why that is. But each time the feeling was kind of the same.

So that’s one thing I would change is like the inclusivity, giving people a chance like why does it have to be about who I know.

And, you know, I’ve even got people – like mates – who are quite big in the art world and I’ve spoken to curators, like, “Oh, yeah, I would like to show” and they’re like, “No, no, what about this person? You know, that person hooked me up with them.”

It’s like, the opportunity is really slim, but I guess it makes you work harder.

And you know, it makes you just a better artist.

So I don’t know, like that’s one thing I would change the inclusivity of it.

Like, I hate that like gatekeeping and like the cliquey vibe… it’s a bit annoying. That’s why I just stay in my studio.

I’ll just do my own exhibitions. I can’t be bothered.

Zoë: That’s the perfect quote for Cosimo, because that’s very much what we tried to do and you’re aimed at emerging artists and like giving them the tools to do their own career, especially because to be an artist, you have to be entrepreneurial.

Art Elusive: I just think like the opportunity like is very small for some reason.

I don’t know if it’s a real thing… Maybe I’m in my head, but I feel like the opportunity is small for me.

And I’m not sure why but I know that I will get to the place that whatever my brain is like driving me towards I know I’ll get there and I know it’s gonna be a beautiful journey.

Zoë: From your perspective, what is one thing that you wish that people knew about being an artist? 

Art Elusive: It’s really vulnerable.

It’s not just someone’s painting a pretty picture, you know?

It’s coming from inside you, you know, like, this vision that you have is like coming out of us a vulnerable place to be to show yourself to be in a room full of people showing them you know, what you’ve created from yourself.

Artists are really vulnerable.

You put yourself out there constantly, you know?

Zoë: Can you talk about your solo exhibition: ‘Something About Connection’?

Art Elusive: I had an exhibition [in] April 2022. And the year before – so 2021 – I got in contact with a gallery, the one gallery that was like, “yeah” because I’d done a group show.

This gallerist walked past and gave me his card and he said, “I’ve got gallery around the corner if you want to do a show. Let’s do it.”

So I went to visit him and he wanted to buy one of the paintings that were in the group show.

And he said, “I’ll give you 50 quid and you can have your show for free. If I can have that painting…”

I was broke – I needed the 50 pound. So I just walked around took it off the wall, gave it to him, got the 50 pound and I was like “Cool. We’re gonna plan a show.”

A few weeks later we started putting flyers out and because I wasn’t feeling very confident and I didn’t have many people around me, I said to him, “Maybe I should do a group show?”

I thought, “I have this other artists, he’s a guy, he’s pretty cool. Like maybe I have downstairs, he has takes the upstairs, maybe it’ll be fun, and more people will come..”

And he just completely flipped.

He was, really overly sexual and, well, it was weird man.

He was like, “I don’t want a man that I don’t know doing the show.”

So, I was in this place where I just took my painting back. I was like, “I’m not doing a show there.”

And then, with all that emotion, I was painting a lot.

And I was like, just so broken for a few months.

And then a month before my show last year I decided, “Well, I’m gonna do a solo exhibition. I’m just gonna do it.”

Everything I feel I’m gonna do it – that’s why the room was so dark, because that’s how I felt. I wanted everyone to feel the suffocation that I felt, you know, and it was all about connection with people.

I wanted to portray that and I just went for it. I got myself a studio. It was 350 pound a month. It was in Peckham. I was like just painting, planning, I was collecting bean bags to put all around to make it [the room] black. I had a month.

I shut myself off [from] the world and I just went for it. And I managed to like book people to perform. It was crazy, like how everyone just came forward for me but at the moment, I didn’t realize that so I was feeling just really I was in a bubble, man.

And then after that exhibition, literally, at 10:30, just before the exhibition [was ending], [all] the bubble burst.

It was so weird, because it was a great exhibition. And I’m so proud of myself – but the heavy emotion around it…

I’m grateful for it, though.

And now I waited a whole year to decide to do another one, but I wanted to do it around the same time.

I think everyone felt something in there [the exhibition].

Whether you liked the paintings or not. It was an experience. That’s what I wanted it to be: an experience.

Zoë: Is the show going to be of ‘the same vibe’ or is it going to be like a continuation? 

Art Elusive: It’s like a vessel. So it’s like you know, it’s a continuation, but it’s not the same.

It’s a flip of how everything was last year.

This one’s called, Something About Existence. The thing in between our connection.

So even as I’m speaking in between, I might be a bit anxious or thought might come to my head. I want to capture: “that” that thing in between.

It’s more romantic. It’s less dark. You know, I was in the grunge stage now I’m like, “No, let’s be a bit lighter and nice, let’s be hopeful.”

So, it’s a flip on it. It’s not going to be dark at all. Anyone wants to come it won’t be dark. We can say affirmations and sit in a circle.

Zoë: What advice would you to artists embarking on this artistic and creative pathway? 

Art Elusive: I would just say: use all your resources around you.

Every single thing is a resource. Even if you’re struggling so hard. Walk around London. There is materials waiting for you to paint on. It.

Do you know I mean? Just use your resources.

Don’t give up trying to find a way. Sometimes, you know, we will talk about ‘burnout’ and stuff. And I practice trying to find a way to be professional with the burn out.

Plan things out. You’ve got to find a way to ride through it.

Because it’s always gonna happen. Just don’t be too hard on yourself, you know?

And don’t shut yourself off from the world – like don’t.

As much as I’m a hermit, I still have my little tribe that’s safe… that can come over.

They do their creative things, or, you know, sit in a studio session. Don’t shut yourself off.

People need to see your craft. They need you in their life basically.

Zoë: What’s some of the more positive things about being an artist in London and having this specific community? 

Art Elusive: I think some of the positives are, when you find your people, they’re very easy to just be around.

Being in London like I could love an artist and if they’re from London too, it’s easy access for us to have a conversation, or you know, go to [an] exhibition, or just vibe and make friends with other artists.

You know, that’s the one thing that I love about the community in London.

It’s just so accessible, you can just walk past any studio and be like, “Hey, I just want to like see what’s going on in here.”

It’s such a city that people are like, “Yeah, sure. So, this is what I do…”

Yeah, that’s what I love about it. I’m not scared to just meet random people.

Even though I’m anxious I still forced myself.

Zoë: Do you have any street artist influences? Or artistic influences you like to who you can name?

Art Elusive: Do you know what? All of my influences are all my friends that are just around me, man.

The people who inspire me and I look up to you.

They might not even be a painter. They could be a tattoo artist. It’s weird.

That’s why i’m like it’s a feeling. Obviously there’s famous artists that I love like Basquiat – my favorite artist in the world.

Andy Warhol… That whole ‘vibe’ [and tribe] in New York.

Keith Haring… Like all of those guys, that’s probably the famous artists that I’ve like been inspired by or look up to.

I do love Sophie Tea Art. She’s out of control. I love her work ethic. She inspires me. Her work ethic really inspires me. She just jumped on it and just went for it.

Zoë: For you, what’s the best way [that] you find connections in the art world?  

Art Elusive: Go to all the shows. Every show. If someone invites you to an exhibition, just go.

You never know who you’re going to meet.

I met this girl at somebody’s exhibition that makes jewelry. And she just inspired me so much.

Just got to shows that’s the best way and most of them are free.

Zoë: Is there anything you think the art world could do to be more accessible? What sort of ‘baby steps’ could the art world take in creating this type of change?

Art Elusive: This is a political topic is because.. like most things I could complain about – I feel like, when you realize that it comes from you, you have to be the person to break it.

I could be like, “there needs to be more black galleries. There needs to be more younger-led galleries.”

Not even just young people …  But I do see a lot and I’m someone who’s mixed race, so for me like my experience isn’t as bad as other people’s.

But I still see that experience and I’m never silent about that stuff.

In regards to the art world, there just needs to be more opportunities for young people of colour to put themselves out there and it not be so difficult and you’re not shut me down and just telling me to go and do a group show because it’s actually tiring.

That’s the number one statement you could give, it’s almost as if you’re not good enough for it, which is quite sad. I would love to personally just do it and just not have to you know, complain and champion for that.

We need more inclusively.

My experience is mainly a race issue. It is mainly a class issue. It is mainly that… it’s hard to articulate.

In the art world, for black people is fucked.. Because even when I went to this exhibition for Black History Month, and the artists who were there, some of them were black, but didn’t speak English – you could tell the gallery owners gone over to find this artist in Nigeria.

But then, if you go to speak to the artists, the gallery owner interjects, and is like, “No, no, don’t speak to him.”

It’s like this is his time to shine… Why can’t I speak to them? It’s Black History Month?… It’s a black exhibition. Why can’t I speak to the black artist?

I just find it so weird.

I saw one black person who was working for the gallery. The first thing I said her [was], “I’m so upset.” I was distressed and I sat down and had a conversation with her and she totally agreed. I knew it wasn’t just me.

But that’s why I’m like with ‘the race thing’… it’s seriously there.

But you just have to, like you said, ‘make your own world’ and not pay attention to this one and just do it yourself and do it better and bigger and sicker and just *middle fingers up* to everyone else.

It’s like the rebel in me.

I don’t know how to speak and write this kind of stuff… But at the same time, it’s so important because if a little girl wants to become an artist, I want her to be able to message me or DM me or whoever else she identifies with and know that she could talk about this – instead of it being hidden away.

Zoë: Also, the same goes for art fairs in general. It’s the all the politics of that world, but that’s just how it works… They have a protocol and tradition.

Art Elusive: I think it’s outdated. It’s so outdated… It’s old.

I’m bored of it. There’s nothing exciting. I go to some of these art fairs and big establishment exhibitions… I’m bored… I’m bored!

And it’s like almost like black people are ‘fashion’ like, I remember last year there were so many galleries that were commissioning paintings that were basically the same, like: ‘black person standing, maybe flowers, maybe a doll.’

It was like a style that was happening, but it was like, “You’re commissioning all these white people to paint these paintings that were originally from black artists,” that exact formula of painting that was successful came from a black artist. It didn’t come from the white artist that you’re showing in [for example] Saatchi Gallery.

Zoë: On the business side, what advice would you give to emerging artists structuring their careers?

Art Elusive: I just think you need to have a basic structure with how you send [artwork], how you package things like just have a basic structure.

And then, from there you build on it. I don’t know after that stage, because I’m still building. I’ve avoided it for so long. That ‘admin’ and all that I’ve avoided. I’m terrible.

But yeah, I think start  with your structure, write everything down. Also what I do is I have a book, everything that I sell everything that I buy.

Everything… I write it in the book. I just have to have that.

So I guess just have a good structure. But I’m still working on it.

I’m probably the worst person – like I avoid websites like the plague like I’ve made then and abandoned them.

I noticed people don’t want to buy art over Instagram… Nobody wants to buy through Instagram.

During the pandemic, it was crazy. I got everything.

All my money came from Instagram. All my commissions.

But now, I’m starting to realize: a lot of people don’t feel comfortable just sending you money, hoping that this isn’t a scam, you know, I mean?

So it’s like you have to have something that is professional or something that protects both people.

Zoë: How many sales were you getting through Instagram? 

Art Elusive: I was painting daily and every day I sold painting.

I played the daily for a year. I broke up with my ex boyfriend. I was like, in a place where I had to release I painted every single day.

I would post the painting and someone would get it. Just like that. Every day.

About 90. I’ve done a lot of paintings. The thing is, they didn’t make it to my page, because I just posted on my story, someone bought it, came to collect it, the next day.

Like I was raking it in. Now I’m like: “Where are you? Come back!”

Zoë: What would make it easier for artists business-wise? 

Art Elusive: I think education. I think I just need a business course. I think it’s all myself, things I need to do myself. Because it’s even stuff like registering a business, that intimidates me.

I don’t want to do that. On Shopify, I have to register a business myself, in order for people to buy stuff using like ‘Visa,’ Amex … etc.” So it’s like, yeah, that intimidates me. I shut down. I’m like, “No.”

When I started making my website, I didn’t realize to actually sell stuff on there, I have to link it to ‘an E commerce [link or portal].’

That intimidates me, I can’t be fucked, like move on.

It needs to be easy. It needs to be like, “right: upload it. someone buys it… deposit the money into your online account.”

You know, artists aren’t good at this sh*t. We have to force ourselves to be good at it.

Zoë: So speaking of: When you’re talking about speaking to younger artists, what is some advice you’d give to you’re younger ‘Purity self,’ or ‘Art Elusive’ self?

Art Elusive: I would say to my younger self: Don’t worry about what other people think of you, your work your process anything.

Don’t worry about what other people think. The most important opinion is your own. That’s what I would say to myself because you get stuck thinking about if other people like your sh*t or like you or want you around in the little community.

The only person that will suffer or the only thing that’s going to suffer is your work. So don’t even focus on it. Just focus on yourself, your work, you know, spend five years just doing the same thing.

Don’t try and be like anyone else. You know, you’re original.

I was such like a people pleaser. I just wanted everyone to like me and like my work, you know?

Now, I’ve learned that, if I ask you: “What do you think about painting?” Does it fucking about what you think? Because if tomorrow I decide to change it, and make it better (in my opinion), that’s my decision.

It’s about me, it’s not about anyone else, you know, and if people resonate with it, that’s when the beautiful thing comes in. Like you don’t have to force that.

Zoë: in the pandemic, though, when you were making lots of sales, [did you have this] same mentality or way of thinking?

Art Elusive: I wasn’t even thinking about selling, you know. I wasn’t even thinking about selling work. I wasn’t even thinking about that.

I didn’t care. It was like an energy. When I was with my ex boyfriend, it was kind of abusive relationship. So he didn’t let me paint in the house. So for a year I wasn’t painting.

So as soon as we broke up, the first thing that I done, was paint and I couldn’t stop.

I couldn’t stop. So that’s what it came from. It was just a lot, like I just had a release, you know?

And I was just churning it out, churning out. My Instagram grew.

When I was with him, I had like 600 followers and now I’m on 2000…

Zoë: But that’s still a lot – it’s such a slap in the face…

Art Elusive: I started loving myself and started doing it for me, not for anybody else. I think everyone just saw that. And it was the pandemic people bought.

The things I was painting were so colourful, vibrant. I was painting everything. It was all kind of abstract, but it was still some portraits. I was doing a lot of commissions of like family portraits, and so I was just, it was almost like a training camp I put myself in.

I was just like painting crazy. I wasn’t using references for most things.

So, I was just learning again… I felt like I’d had a year off and I just had to learn again, and people just loved it.

Like this one woman – she became a collector of mine. She’s bought 10 pieces.

Starting off as three in one week and now, if she likes something, she’s just like, “Yeah, that’s mine.”

Zoë: I feel like when I look at your paintings, even if the style changes, it has a distinct essence that’s “you.” 

I’ll say, “Oh, yeah, that’s your style.” That’s why I  like it.

It just has this unique perspective, and you can tell it, I think that’s the best.

Art needs to have a story. It needs to be personal to you. And when that’s personal to you, you connect to the audience, it’s going to reach out to somebody. It sounds so cliché, but it’s the truth.

By Zoë Goetzmann (@byzoesera)

Interview with Emma Loizides – Contemporary Art

 

This week, Cosimo: Studio Tours visits artist Emma Loizides’ studio in North London. 

On a typical grey London day, Emma’s studio and home is a pink palace oasis (and the epitome of my art and home decor dreams). The walls of her house are covered entirely with art – her stunning salon-style gallery wall was one of the prime highlights of this studio visit. 

Emma is a full-time artist and oil painter. She creates landscapes, cityscapes, and still lifes inspired by her international travels, popular brands, or branded, commercial imagery – inspired by her time spent living in the U.K. and the U.S.A. 

Some of our favourite works by Emma include her London skyline paintings (including her recent work of the skyline overlooking Primrose Hill – which, as Loizides says in our interview, took her “two years” to complete due to the work’s massive scale). 

Emma has exhibited work in the Royal Academy’s Summer School. She has shown work at Roy’s Art Fair and The Other Art Fair. Last year, the artist exhibited her work for the first time at START Art Fair at Saatchi Gallery. 

This year, Emma will show her work at this upcoming Affordable Art Fair and Fresh Art Fair. 

Zoë: Tell me about your ‘Artist Story.’ What made you want to become an artist?

Emma: I started quite late, I didn’t become a full-time artist till I was 40. I always loved being creative and making things as a kid. And I studied up to A Level. And then when I went to university, I really wanted to travel.

So I studied business, Business Management, and Spanish, then went into working in Canary Wharf, at HSBC.  And then I must have been in my early 20s – I was coming out of work one day, and I saw a sign for an art club, like ‘A Lunchtime Art Club,’ and I thought, “I’d love that.”

And from then, I just started doing short courses at Central Saint Martins on Saturdays and I did summer school at the Slade [School of Fine Art] and just started painting in my spare time. Just always: ‘building it’ [my artistic practice].

I entered a show in Bedford, I think I was 27. And that was the first painting that I sold, and just kept at it since then. And then it was during the COVID [pandemic] I just started selling more and painting more. And I thought now I’m going to go for it full-time.

Zoë: Did you always had a passion for art? Did you do it when you were younger? And what made you not want to pursue it early on? Just timing? 

Emma: I was always creative. But I think there aren’t really any artists in my family. And it’s, I guess I just thought I’m not going to make any money. I have to get a – you know – ‘office type job.’ It just didn’t occur to me that it was an option.

Zoë: Was there a turning point when you realised there was a potential to make money? Or did you take on? Did you start pursuing art just because you wanted to do it? Was it a ‘now or never situation?’

Emma: I think I was always edging towards it. And like applying for different things like applying to The Other Art Fair and the Affordable Art Fair.

And it was around that time when, just over a year and a half ago, just things started happening. I started selling more and I just thought: “Oh, I’m really going to give it a go now.”

Zoë: Wow. So can you tell me a little bit about your artistic practice and kind of the mediums you work with and the themes you explore?

Emma: Yeah, so I like to paint the city, I guess because I’m right in London. I genuinely work from photographs and sketches.

So for example, when I was at Canary Wharf when I was working in HSBC, I used to take my sketchbook and sit at lunchtime and just be sketching around the buildings and things. So I work from photographs and sketches.

I don’t work on location like I wouldn’t paint in the park because I find it too difficult with the weather – ‘London weather.’ So yeah, I work from my studio here. I work with oils all the time.  I’m really slow. This one’s taken me two years [Emma gestures to the massive landscape/cityscape of the view from Primrose Hill behind us]. 

That’s the view from Primrose Hill. So I would go there, sketching my sketchbook and get an idea of what I wanted to paint. Then come back and make the canvas: it’s linen canvas, which I stretched it here and then built up loads of layers of oil paints.

Zoë: [There’s] also a slightly photographic feel to your work. I was wondering: are you able to explain how you’re able to [accomplish] this specific style of painting? 

Or, how you’re able to create oil paintings that have a slightly photographic feel [or sentiment]? There’s a kind of flatness to the overall canvas. It’s really interesting.

Emma: I think it’s probably because I do work from photographs. So I’m copying from photographs, and then if I’m missing detail, or I’ll go back …

Zoë: You paint a lot of different locations. Is there a reason why you love painting [cities] or London so much [for example]? What appeals to you about [painting] cities and travel?

Emma: It’s just what [is] familiar to me. I also spent two years living in Las Vegas. And I did an internship there about 15 years ago. So I travelled around the coast and did a road trip from San Diego to San Francisco.

And I got a lot of photographs and sketches and stuff from around there. And I love the American landscape, and the flat architecture, and palm trees. So there’s quite a mix.

There’s an influence from America and the American landscape and then quite a lot of London cityscapes as well.

Zoë: There’s such a good positivity also to your work. I love mostly the cityscapes, but then you also focus on [capturing] the horizons of the city as well. [All your ‘scapes] have this ‘warm glow’ about them, which is nice.  

So, for the next question: Was there a reason why you decided to go to art school and get that practical [foundational] knowledge?

Emma: Purely enjoyment. I just loved it. But even now, even though I’ve been painting for 15 years, last year, I went and did another one. Because when I’m painting here on my own [in my studio], it’s not the same as being around other artists and being able to talk about it.

So it’s just purely like, ‘booking a holiday’ – I booked a course because I just like to get new ideas. And it’s a chance to ask questions and stuff.

When you’re self-taught, you know, I don’t really have people who have lots of artists, friends that I can ask questions to. So that’s why it’s really nice to do things like that.

Zoë: Then when you were starting out, how did you find your community with things like art fairs and other artists? Was it through mostly social media? How did you find those media connections? For networking and things?

Emma: In person. So, I’m still in touch with some of the artists I met at The Other Art Fair. I did, Roy’s Art Fair. And then social media is great for keeping in touch.

Because you only meet people over a few days, and then keep in touch on Instagram. I also joined marguerite [Women’s Arts Membership Club].

They just had their closing party yesterday. They’re a networking group for ‘Women in the Arts.’ So, I met some good friends through that.

Zoë: What do you love most about being an artist? Is it about making art in general? Or about the art world? 

Emma: I love the freedom. I think it’s the best bit. The freedom of my time. I think where I was trying to paint around work was really hard.

I’d have to get up at five and do an hour before work or on my weekends. I was painting all weekend. Now I feel, like a sense of, if I wake up I can paint, and if I don’t want to there’s enough to get on with communications or updating my website.

There’s lots of different things to do.

Zoë: It’s [the process or position of being an artist] ever-changing. It’s much better than a ‘9-to-5’ job. You can just ‘live in that creative expression.’ [it’s] very therapeutic.  

What is one thing that you’d like to change or would hope would change in the art world?

Emma: In the art world? I think there’s so much, sometimes it can be a bit hard. You feel like you’re an outsider and can be quite hard to get into.

But really, it’s just about getting to know people and keeping going isn’t it? It can feel too big at times and too far away. And I think about being an artist. The one thing that I’ve found hard is not having a regular salary.

On the one hand, you’ve got the freedom but when you’re used to having a corporate job and being paid each week, that’s the one thing that I found a bit hard to get used to.

Zoë: Yeah, [the art world can feel] too big, and then when you are in it’s too small. That’s very true. And the barriers to entry. That’s important to note. As an artist, what is one thing that you wish people or people in the art world knew about being an artist? 

Emma: I think maybe people in my position want to be an artist, something I wish they knew is that it’s not all like, ‘you’re still going to have challenges and there’s still going to be things you don’t want to do.’

It’s not all like you just wake up and fly around with a paintbrush. You know, there’s still lots of aspects to being an artist.

There’s the sales, there’s the communications, there’s the painting itself. And, you have to wear so many different hats.

Zoë: Is there one thing that you can pinpoint, ‘what’s the biggest challenge of being an artist?’

Emma: For myself? I would say it’s being disciplined and getting in the studio.

Somehow when you have less time, you are stricter and you are a lot more disciplined with your time and I would paint every day, whereas now I have that freedom, I do need to be disciplined and make sure I, you know, have set focus time on painting.

Often it’s like getting yourself in there and getting started. And then before you know what you’re into it. It’s like going to the gym, isn’t it?

Zoë: Rather paint than go to the gym, to be honest [laughs]. It’s also a different type of therapy [Art and making Art]. And what advice would you give to other artists or emerging artists who maybe are making the decision to go into this pathway [of becoming an artist]? 

Emma: For myself. I was trying to do everything. No, like I said, it can seem really big for art fairs, you’ve got all these open calls, these galleries, and I would say, to just take it slow.

There’s no rush. Just to keep making progress in the direction you want to go. But you don’t need to do it all at once.

It can seem overwhelming. Sometimes, you know, if you want to enter everything, do everything. Just focus on one thing at a time.

Zoë: I think that’s important. I think that’s important, especially for younger artists.  

Especially art school students, and you have a lot of anxiety, it’s good to go to art school [but there’s a\ lot of anxiety and pressure to be like ‘the superstar,’ and to be in museums and galleries, which isgreat and you want to do that. 

But it’s good to afford connections and ‘to not burn out.’ That’s how you burn out too quickly, I think.

Emma: And it takes the joy out of it. It’s fun. You know, like that’s something that I forgot about when I was putting pressure on myself to become an artist.

I was just making sure I: ‘paint, paint, paint.’ And it just took the joy out of it. And then it was when I started to have more fun again and forget about the outside world, is when it you know start to enjoy it more

Zoë: Definitely. Do you find that it’s important to create things that are important to you or unique to yourself? 

I feel like when I speak to a lot of artists, when they find an avenue that works for them, that’s when they start attracting collectors and sellers or was that your experience? 

Emma: I can’t really say they’re important to me but just something that I just really enjoy. I’m drawn to it. For example: the American landscapes I just love. I see something that I really like and I’m drawn to it.

I paint strange things. Have you heard of artist Wayne Thiebaud?  He paints ‘gumball machines,’ ‘everyday things.’ I just love the way he uses paints. I did start to paint cakes, just to try and learn more, like how he uses the oil paints. I think he’s great.

Zoë: Do you have any other artist inspirations or any other artistic inspirations that you draw from?

Emma: I really like Edward Hopper, I like Jasper Johns. I like the texture, I haven’t tried, but he uses wax. And his ‘Flag Paintings’ and ‘the letters’ I really liked the texture that he’s got in them. I like Robert Delauney for his use of colour.

Zoë: Lot’s of male artists, which is interesting … 

Emma: It’s really interesting because, people [who saw my work] at Start Art Fair, thought it was a man who painted them.

Zoë: Really?

Emma: A few people said to me, ‘Oh, who is this guy?’ [and I replied]: ‘Actually, it’s me.’ It’s really, it’s just strange that’s an observation [people have].

Zoë: That’s very interesting. That’s like pluses and minuses it’s also that’s good also maybe – in this art world it’s probably a good thing. Is there anything – or a few things that you wish you knew when you first started [being an artist] that you would tell your younger self [who] wanted to pursue this career?

Emma: Take your time and enjoy it. There’s a quote I read that said: “You can have it all but just not all at once.” There’s so much to do, I don’t need to do it all this year

Enjoy creating and the creating process. Just create.  I think that’s the main thing I would tell myself: to make sure I have fun [while] I’m painting.

Zoë: What do you love most about the London landscape as well? Is there anything that pulls you into it? What do you love most about drawing [creating art] in London specifically?

Emma:It’s not really related to the art but I like that no one really cares like no one pays attention. I could sit there and sketch and people that don’t really ask what you’re up to. I just feel like if you sit there peacefully. It’s just quite peaceful to sit in the park. Especially there [on] Primrose Hill.

Zoë: It’s very solitary.

Emma: Yes, solitary. That’s the idea. Yeah. I find it quite a nice thing to do. Just get a coffee and go with a sketchbook somewhere.

Zoë: Being in the art world and being an artist, is the cost [of promoting and taking part in art fairs] one of the most challenging things? Or does the experience outweigh the difference?

Emma: I wouldn’t say the cost is a challenge. Because now there’s Instagram. It doesn’t cost anything to get really good at that.

There are other opportunities that don’t cost things. But it’s knowing some of the things, there is a lot of cost involved, and it’s knowing which ones are good.  What would be the driving force to make you want to submit and pay for a placement in an art fair?

I think that’s where your network is key. Because if you know somebody who’s done something, and they can tell you: ‘it was good’ or ‘it was a rip-off…’

Zoë: Would a guarantee in sales be a factor or just guaranteed promotion? Or is it just the reliability of other artists that could vouch for it?

Emma: I think ‘yes.’. For example, START ART FAIR is very good publicity. It’s a really good venue. And someone told me at the start: “Don’t do an art fair unless you can afford to not sell anything.” So I’ve always had that in my head. It’s not guaranteed that you’re going to sell anything.

Zoë: That’s good advice for artists actually.

Thank you Emma, again, for taking part in this interview. This chat was lovely and incredibly helpful for artists and art lovers too!

You can see more of Emma’s work here. 

By Zoë Goetzmann 

Interview with Rory Watson Artist – Emerging Artist

 

Rory Watson is a London-based artist who works in a variety of different media: from painting, drawing, and charcoal, to digital installation projects. 

He holds a Fine Art Foundation Degree with Distinction from City College of Brighton and Hove. Rory also holds a First-Class Honours Degree from Central Saint Martins, UAL.

In this interview, I visited Rory at his new studio located in Bethnal Green, London, where we spoke about a range of topics.

From what motivated his desire to become an artist, his painting process, working as a colourblind painter, his artistic influences, the pros and cons of digital and physical works and spaces as well as his future plans for his career and work: letting go creatively in order to grow as an artist capable of taking on a more multi-disciplinary approach: 

Zoë: So, let’s start out with question I like to ask all artists: What made you want to become an artist? In short: tell me your ‘Artist Story?’ 

Rory: That’s such a loaded question: what made you want to become an artist? Well, my mum’s an artist. She works with oil, she’s a painter. So, I suppose being bought up with a mum as an artist is definitely something which is inspiring.

 

During school, I had multiple backgrounds. I was kind of more pushed away, I suppose from Art and [due to a lot of factors] like being colourblind [for example]. I would get things wrong a lot.

 

I suppose I just wanted to do something which I could enjoy. I’m not very good at sitting still: [such as] being [or working] in an office. I like being active [and] moving around.

 

I suppose [it] [or art] is a challenge as well. [With Art] there’s never [a] [‘right answer.’] As soon as you try something, within a week, you look at a painting, that you liked last week, and suddenly you realize what you could have done better until you start another one [painting].

 

It’s just an endless process of trying to get to a point. You can never really let go.

 

Zoë: Did you so did you go to art school? 

 

Rory: I did my Foundation Degree in Brighton. And then I took three years out in between going there and then going to Central Saint Martin’s. But I wasn’t a painter at University.

 

I used to do installations. I worked [with] a lot with like digital elements, like making holographic works, using Augmented Reality. I didn’t really start painting until after University.

 

Zoë: Tell me a bit about your current artistic and painting practice? 

 

Rory: Rather than looking at the art world in so much depth, I’ve come to take more of a stance looking at myself within the art world and how I see myself as an artist and my own personal interests.

 

I’m still interested in physical spaces, digital spaces, and the modern art world that we live in. I’ve recently taken more of an internal viewpoint and been sort of looking at my own personal interests within the art world.

 

And I have been looking at [how] these ideologies will combine. I think it’s going be interesting.

 

Zoë: Could you also talk to me a bit about what it’s like working as a painter with colourblindness? 

 

Rory:  It’s like being dyslexic with colours. Certain shades and certain colours can be confusing. Certain reds look like certain greens, certain blues look like certain lilacs.

 

Turquoise is probably the most confusing one. Because it could be grey, pink, green or blue. [But] a vivid bright green is always going to be seen as green.

 

I’ve been doing a bit more research [into] working with colour, through the process of [now] doing [very] colourful work. It’s interesting how a lot of people who are colourblind look at the textures of certain objects to help determine what colour they are.

 

That’s an element which I’ve started incorporating in my work, which is much more of a thick, textural element.

 

Zoë: That transitions into my next question: what do you love most about being an artist? 

 

Rory: For me, it’s the constant challenge. As frustrating as it is: the amount of times, I’ve wanted to punch a hole in a canvas I’m working on, it’s the constant challenge.

 

You want to keep going because you can create a work and ‘one in 10,’ ‘one and 21’ [and/or] ‘[one] in 50 works,’ you create you [can] take a step back and you’re like, “Oh, I’m kind of happy with that.”

 

Give it a week you come back and then you’re like, “Well, why was I happy with that?” It keeps [up] the motivation to keep going. I feel like that’s what I love and hate about it. But, it’s exciting.

 

Zoë: Which artistic genre do you enjoy working with more? Digital or Painting? 

 

Rory: I have this infatuation about the digital. It’s something I am interested in. It just takes me longer to get anywhere with it. I think that my work [painting] does discuss the digital somewhere another.

 

You could even say that the bold colours [juxtaposed] against each other, it [almost gives the feeling of [having] depth on [a two-dimensional] plane.

 

Zoë: That’s true. I didn’t notice that until now [gesturing to small canvas works on wooden studio wall behind me]. That makes a lot of sense. That brings us to the notion of imitating digital works as well – as the colours in the paintings are almost hyper-saturated.

 

Rory: Yes, it’s a very new way of working for me. It’s something which I’m sort of learning [as I go]. I suppose it’s not the way that I usually work.

 

But even this conversation has been revealing more about my practice I didn’t really know existed.

 

Zoë: Okay, so onto the bonus question: Is there something that you wish people knew about what’s it is like working as artists being an artist?

 

Rory: When I said that finished University, I always wanted to paint, but I didn’t want to be labeled a painter. I wanted to be able to work across different mediums.

 

I didn’t want to be typecast into this category and then be stuck in that category. I like working with different mediums and [following] [wherever] the process sort of takes you through.

 

I work very differently than to how I am [working] now. I sort of had plans where I wanted to go. I planned everything, thoroughly designed everything. Now I’m kind of letting things go and just rolling with it a little bit more, which has been difficult for me.

 

Because I [used to] think I [needed] a plan when it comes to my practice. By trying to get rid of [that] plan, at times, it’s been very difficult. And very frustrating.

 

You [often] hit like a block, you don’t really know what you’re doing, where are you going. And you need conversations like these [to] realize what it is [that is] sort of holding you back. I used to map things out, print out many pictures, at work from different things.

 

All these paintings that you look at behind you [The artist points to intensely colourful, small oil works on canvas behind us] none of them are done with models, none of them through photographs.

 

This [process] is all [done by] sort of approaching canvas with just the element of paint and a canvas. I used to [create] grids to make sure things [were] in proportion. But I kind of like it when things sort of ‘move ’in the painting.

 

Zoë: Because that’s the tradition of painting and what artists are taught in art school … you’re taught the basic as a framework and as you begin to mature in your artistic practice, you can deviate from this foundation slightly.

 

Rory: A lot of people look at these paintings, they ask if they’re self-portraits. And it’s kind of interesting.

 

So, I suppose in some respects, they might be. I took photos of my face in the process just to see where shadows would hit the face at certain times. In terms of being more self-portrait [depends on] the colours that I’m choosing to use, or how I’m feeling in the studio on those days.

 

Sometimes I’ll be flicking paint of canvas and a little bit more aggressively: smudging, moving the paint around. So, I suppose a part of it is my emotions coming through in the paintings.

 

Other days where I’m a little bit more relaxed, there’ll be more intricate parts of the painting that will come out.

 

Zoë: Did you or do you have any artistic influences? 

 

Rory: There’s been many, many influences through the years. I really love quite a few. Since painting at different times, there’s been different influences that have been more prominent [than others]. [Scale-wise], with works such as ‘The Stare’ and ‘Intro,’ [I took inspiration from] Jenny Saville.

 

Anthony McAuliffe is another artist who I was looking at as well [for his use of] [textural] works.  I used to do a lot of charcoal drawings, like loads and loads of charcoal drawings.

 

And trying to transcribe charcoal to paint, I thought was quite interesting [the] way that Anthony McAuliffe accomplished that – keeping [a sense of] rawness [in]both mediums

 

Zoë: For the last question, what do you wish you knew at the start of your career that you wish you knew now? 

 

Rory: So, I think I stayed in almost like a safe zone for too long. I didn’t take as many risks as I wanted to.

 

Especially throughout University. I sort of got myself down ‘this rabbit hole’ of working with digital and comparing digital and physical spaces using holographic and digital elements. It wasn’t until after University where I started painting, started drawing and trying to talk about [these] subjects in different ways.

 

I was always kind of scared of painting. Maybe it has got something to do with the fact my mum was a painter, and I didn’t want to be compared. Maybe not like working with colour. Another one. I only ever worked black and white. I tried charcoal drawings.

 

I’ve never worked with colour. Because whenever I tried to recreate something, people would be [say]. “Why is their skin green?” and I didn’t even realize.   So now I’m looking [at] how colours interact on the canvas. [I’m looking at how you can] build a face all together.

 

I wish I had the confidence to do that earlier. Because that took me too long to get the courage to do: almost for the fear of ‘being wrong.’

 

Zoë: Business-wise: is there any advice you would give yourself? 

 

Rory: For me: it’s trying to stay clear of painting what other people want and doing what you want. And I think that’s the main thing because it’s quite easy.

 

You could have someone come up to you and say they really liked one piece of work and they could ask you to recreate it. But the whole point, especially if I think most artists practices are like, “Is that you?” You don’t sort of stagnate in that sense.

 

You move on you, keep going you evolve, and my work has changed a lot throughout the years. And sometimes some works I do, a lot of people say, “They’re grotesque,” “They’re haunting,” “They’re scary,” “They wouldn’t want it on their walls.” I get that quite a lot.

 

I suppose it’s not looking at sales as the main thing you want to look at. I want to look at creating work that I enjoy looking at.

 

 

You can find more of Rory’s work on Instagram at: @rorywatson.art